[Bonetools] identification of raw material

Wed Jul 9 09:32:22 CEST 2014

Le 08/07/2014 21:09, marinaevora at sapo.pt a écrit :
>
> Next week I will be able to look at this rounded artefact again, it is 
> the laboratory. I will check what you suggest and get back to you. I 
> remember that the outer surface is the same all around, yes. But the 
> hole in the center looks very "perfect"
>
EXPLAIN !

> and the lines are in both sides and I don't think they resulted from 
> scraping,
>
Je n'ai pas voulu dire cela. I did wqnt to say that ; my question is : 
did this area where the lines are pecularly clear be cleaned. 
cleaned/abraded by cleaning ?

> they seem natural...
>
> thank you.
>
> Quoting François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr <mailto:poplin at mnhn.fr>>:
>
>> Generally speaking, the (outer) skeleton of invertebrates is rather 
>> hard (like shell, limestone) and bone lighter, softer. When you test 
>> them with a nail, you feel the the first will bite the nail, an that 
>> second will be rather bited, stripped by the nail. The firs sounds 
>> "clear, heigh" on a glass table, and the second "dim, low" (a 
>> difference you get between heigh and low heated/cooked ceramic). Have 
>> you any impression of that kind ?
>>
>> AND
>> I come back to the first three pictures. At a first glimpse, I had 
>> the impression that the "hole/central channel" had been drilled - but 
>> no : on views 1 and 2, I see as a wall, a sort of lining, more or 
>> less as outside (view 3). I have to consider a naturaly holowed 
>> cylinder, a tube or a muff deposited on a (desapeared/decayed) rod - 
>> but the lines of picture 2 dont agree... Has the object been scraped 
>> (nowadays) on the left part (fig. 2) so as the lines are more clear ? 
>> Was it easy to scrape...? ( go back to the beginning).
>>
>> It lets me remember of fish hyperostosis, of the filling of swordfish 
>> rostrum/bill...
>> Maybe a big part of lamellary fish bone growing and taking in an 
>> artery (or some other "ductus")...
>>
>> [as far as I know, there is no pipe-like penis bone...]
>>
>> Is the outer surface the same all around the thing  ? Would you say 
>> that the outer is carved/cut by man ?
>>
>> !!!
>>
>> Le 08/07/2014 14:14, marinaevora at sapo.pt a écrit :
>>>
>>> Dear François and Paul,
>>>
>>> The site is close to the Atlantic ocean, more or less 3km currently. 
>>> And during the UP it wouldn't be very far from the ocean either.
>>> Thank you for the images you sent Paul.
>>>
>>> best
>>> Marina
>>>
>>> Quoting François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr <mailto:poplin at mnhn.fr>>:
>>>
>>>> I don't see figure of repeated layering as in the image I was 
>>>> speaking of previously.
>>>> That king of layering in "spongy bone" can be (roughly) observed in 
>>>> ossifed costo-sternebral cartilages. But...
>>>>
>>>> To All,
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like it did not work will need to add each photo as an 
>>>>> attachment not part of text from a word doc.
>>>>> Hope this works,
>>>>> Paul Stokes
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 7 July 2014, 21:08, Paul Stokes 
>>>>> <escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To All,
>>>>> I've just spent 15mins to trim, soak in boiling water 5mins to 
>>>>> soften and cut a slice of antler found laying about the house
>>>>> These are the views of slice of antler cut with a saw with 7 teeth 
>>>>> per cm. x200 digital microscope
>>>>>  The attached is photograph of the slice and the piece of antler 
>>>>> it was cut from
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Paul Stokes
>>>>> On Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:03, Sonia O'Connor 
>>>>> <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Definitely not cuttlefish bone/shell. I attach a photomicrograph 
>>>>> of cuttlefish shell.
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Sonia
>>>>> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, 
>>>>> University of York
>>>>> Post-doctoral Researcher
>>>>> Archaeological Sciences
>>>>> Division of AGES,
>>>>> University of Bradford
>>>>> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>>>>> tel 01274 23 6498
>>>>> *From:* Bonetools [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] *On 
>>>>> Behalf Of* François Poplin
>>>>> *Sent:* 07 July 2014 12:53
>>>>> *To:* Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for 
>>>>> the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
>>>>> Is it far away from the ocean ? can you tell wheher it's rather 
>>>>> calcium carbonate than phosphate ? The second picture here lets me 
>>>>> remember of some invertebrate constructions. Unfortunatley, I have 
>>>>> even not a simple broken cuttle-fish "bone"/shell to go on that 
>>>>> way of investigation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/07/2014 16:12, marinaevora at sapo.pt 
>>>>> <mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>     We found this round artifact in an upper paleolithic site. I
>>>>>     would like to hear your opinions about the identification of
>>>>>     the raw material. The images were taken with a binocular
>>>>>     microscope.
>>>>>     Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Marina Évora
>>>>>
>>>>>     Please consider the impact on the environment before printing
>>>>>     this message.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Bonetools mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>     Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu  <mailto:Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> François POPLIN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> CP 56
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 55, rue de Buffon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 75005 Paris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 01 40 79 33 11
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> fax ------ 33 14
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> François POPLIN
>>>>
>>>> Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
>>>>
>>>> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>>>>
>>>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>>>> CP 56
>>>> Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée
>>>> 55, rue de Buffon
>>>> 75005 Paris
>>>> 01 40 79 33 11
>>>> fax ------ 33 14
>>>>
>>>> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marina Évora
>>>
>>> *P****Please consider the impact on the environment before printing 
>>> this **message.*
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bonetools mailing list
>>> Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>> https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> François POPLIN
>>
>> Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
>>
>> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>>
>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>> CP 56
>> Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée
>> 55, rue de Buffon
>> 75005 Paris
>> 01 40 79 33 11
>> fax ------ 33 14
>>
>> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> Marina Évora
>
> *P****Please consider the impact on the environment before printing 
> this **message.*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bonetools mailing list
> Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
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-- 
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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