[Bonetools] identification of raw material

marinaevora at sapo.pt marinaevora at sapo.pt
Tue Jul 8 21:09:05 CEST 2014 

Next week I will be able to look at this rounded artefact again, it is the
laboratory. I will check what you suggest and get back to you. I remember
that the outer surface is the same all around, yes. But the hole in the
center looks very "perfect" and the lines are in both sides and I don't
think they resulted from scraping, they seem natural...

   thank you.

Quoting François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>:
> Generally speaking, the (outer) skeleton of invertebrates is rather  
> hard (like shell, limestone) and bone lighter, softer. When you test  
> them with a nail, you feel the the first will bite the nail, an that  
> second will be rather bited, stripped by the nail. The firs sounds  
> "clear, heigh" on a glass table, and the second "dim, low" (a  
> difference you get between heigh and low heated/cooked ceramic).  
> Have you any impression of that kind ?
>
>    AND
>    I come back to the first three pictures. At a first glimpse, I  
> had the impression that the "hole/central channel" had been drilled  
> - but no : on views 1 and 2, I see as a wall, a sort of lining, more  
> or less as outside (view 3). I have to consider a naturaly holowed  
> cylinder, a tube or a muff deposited on a (desapeared/decayed) rod -  
> but the lines of picture 2 dont agree... Has the object been scraped  
> (nowadays) on the left part (fig. 2) so as the lines are more clear  
> ? Was it easy to scrape...? ( go back to the beginning).
>
>    It lets me remember of fish hyperostosis, of the filling of  
> swordfish rostrum/bill... 
>    Maybe a big part of lamellary fish bone growing and taking in an  
> artery (or some other "ductus")...
>
>    [as far as I know, there is no pipe-like penis bone...]
>
>    Is the outer surface the same all around the thing  ? Would you  
> say that the outer is carved/cut by man ?
>
>    !!!
>
>    Le 08/07/2014 14:14, marinaevora at sapo.pt a écrit :
>>
>> Dear François and Paul,
>>
>>     The site is close to the Atlantic ocean, more or less 3km  
>> currently. And during the UP it wouldn't be very far from the ocean  
>> either.
>>     Thank you for the images you sent Paul.
>>
>>     best
>>     Marina
>>      
>>
>> Quoting François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>:
>>>
>>> I don't see figure of repeated layering as in the image I was  
>>> speaking of previously.
>>>      That king of layering in "spongy bone" can be (roughly)  
>>> observed in ossifed costo-sternebral cartilages. But...
>>>
>>> To All,
>>>>  
>>>> Looks like it did not work will need to add each photo as an  
>>>> attachment not part of text from a word doc.
>>>>  
>>>> Hope this works,
>>>>  
>>>> Paul Stokes
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>> On Monday, 7 July 2014, 21:08, Paul Stokes  
>>>> <escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk>[1] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To All,
>>>>  
>>>> I've just spent 15mins to trim, soak in boiling water 5mins to  
>>>> soften and cut a slice of antler found laying about the house 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> These are the views of slice of antler cut with a saw with 7  
>>>> teeth per cm. x200 digital microscope
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The attached is photograph of the slice and the piece of antler  
>>>> it was cut from
>>>> Regards
>>>>  
>>>> Paul Stokes
>>>> On Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:03, Sonia O'Connor  
>>>> <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>[2] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Definitely not cuttlefish bone/shell. I attach a photomicrograph  
>>>> of cuttlefish shell.
>>>>  
>>>> All the best,
>>>>  
>>>> Sonia
>>>>  
>>>> Dr Sonia O'ConnorPhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,  
>>>> University of York
>>>> Post-doctoral Researcher
>>>> Archaeological Sciences
>>>> Division of AGES, 
>>>> University of Bradford
>>>> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>>>>  
>>>> tel 01274 23 6498
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>> FROM:Bonetools [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] ON  
>>>> BEHALF OF François Poplin
>>>> SENT: 07 July 2014 12:53
>>>> TO: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the  
>>>> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Is it far away from the ocean ? can you tell wheher it's rather  
>>>> calcium carbonate than phosphate ? The second picture here lets  
>>>> me remember of some invertebrate constructions. Unfortunatley, I  
>>>> have even not a simple broken cuttle-fish "bone"/shell to go on  
>>>> that way of investigation.
>>>>
>>>>                              Le 04/07/2014 16:12,  
>>>> marinaevora at sapo.pt a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>                              We found this round artifact in an  
>>>>> upper paleolithic site. I would like to hear your opinions about  
>>>>> the identification of the raw material. The images were taken  
>>>>> with a binocular microscope.
>>>>>                              Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                              Marina Évora
>>>>>
>>>>>                              Please consider the impact on the  
>>>>> environment before printing this message.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                               
>>>>> _______________________________________________Bonetools mailing  
>>>>> listBonetools at listserv.niif.huhttps://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                              
>>>> --François POPLIN Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209  
>>>> Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et  
>>>> environnements Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie Muséum  
>>>> national d'Histoire naturelleCP 56Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie  
>>>> comparée55, rue de Buffon75005 Paris01 40 79 33 11fax ------ 33  
>>>> 14 francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>                          
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ Bonetools mailing  
>>>> list  
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>> --  François POPLIN   Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209  
>>> Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et  
>>> environnements   Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie    
>>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle  CP 56  Ancien Laboratoire  
>>> d?Anatomie comparée  55, rue de Buffon  75005 Paris  01 40 79 33  
>>> 11  fax ------ 33 14   francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>      
>>
>>  
>>
>>     Marina Évora
>>
>> P PLEASE CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING  
>> THIS MESSAGE.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Bonetools mailing  
>> list  
>> Bonetools at listserv.niif.huhttps://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>
>
>     
> --  François POPLIN   Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209  
> Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et  
> environnements   Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie    
> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle  CP 56  Ancien Laboratoire  
> d?Anatomie comparée  55, rue de Buffon  75005 Paris  01 40 79 33 11   
> fax ------ 33 14   francoispoplin.blogspot.com

 

    Marina Évora

P PLEASE CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS MESSAGE.



Ligações:
---------
[1] <a href="mailto:escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk">  
mailto:escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk</a>
[2] <a href="mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk">  
mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk</a>
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