[Bonetools] identification of raw material

Wed Jul 9 20:52:58 CEST 2014

Dear François and Marina

I have not studied fish hyperostosis but I have just shown these images to Terry O'Connor and he says that fish hyperostosis seems quite a plausible identification.  He is most familiar with hyperostosis in haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus) cleithrum.

All the best,

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP

Tel 01274 236498
________________________________
From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu> on behalf of François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
Sent: 08 July 2014 14:49
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

Generally speaking, the (outer) skeleton of invertebrates is rather hard (like shell, limestone) and bone lighter, softer. When you test them with a nail, you feel the the first will bite the nail, an that second will be rather bited, stripped by the nail. The firs sounds "clear, heigh" on a glass table, and the second "dim, low" (a difference you get between heigh and low heated/cooked ceramic). Have you any impression of that kind ?

AND
I come back to the first three pictures. At a first glimpse, I had the impression that the "hole/central channel" had been drilled - but no : on views 1 and 2, I see as a wall, a sort of lining, more or less as outside (view 3). I have to consider a naturaly holowed cylinder, a tube or a muff deposited on a (desapeared/decayed) rod - but the lines of picture 2 dont agree... Has the object been scraped (nowadays) on the left part (fig. 2) so as the lines are more clear ? Was it easy to scrape...? ( go back to the beginning).

It lets me remember of fish hyperostosis, of the filling of swordfish rostrum/bill...
Maybe a big part of lamellary fish bone growing and taking in an artery (or some other "ductus")...

[as far as I know, there is no pipe-like penis bone...]

Is the outer surface the same all around the thing  ? Would you say that the outer is carved/cut by man ?

!!!

Le 08/07/2014 14:14, marinaevora at sapo.pt<mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt> a écrit :

Dear François and Paul,

The site is close to the Atlantic ocean, more or less 3km currently. And during the UP it wouldn't be very far from the ocean either.
Thank you for the images you sent Paul.

best
Marina

Quoting François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr<mailto:poplin at mnhn.fr>>:

I don't see figure of repeated layering as in the image I was speaking of previously.
That king of layering in "spongy bone" can be (roughly) observed in ossifed costo-sternebral cartilages. But...

To All,

Looks like it did not work will need to add each photo as an attachment not part of text from a word doc.

Hope this works,

Paul Stokes

On Monday, 7 July 2014, 21:08, Paul Stokes <escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk><mailto:escoffier1951 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

To All,

I've just spent 15mins to trim, soak in boiling water 5mins to soften and cut a slice of antler found laying about the house

These are the views of slice of antler cut with a saw with 7 teeth per cm. x200 digital microscope

[X][X][X][X][X]
 The attached is photograph of the slice and the piece of antler it was cut from
Regards

Paul Stokes
On Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:03, Sonia O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk><mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk> wrote:

Definitely not cuttlefish bone/shell. I attach a photomicrograph of cuttlefish shell.

All the best,

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES,
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK

tel 01274 23 6498

From: Bonetools [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of François Poplin
Sent: 07 July 2014 12:53
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

Is it far away from the ocean ? can you tell wheher it's rather calcium carbonate than phosphate ? The second picture here lets me remember of some invertebrate constructions. Unfortunatley, I have even not a simple broken cuttle-fish "bone"/shell to go on that way of investigation.

Le 04/07/2014 16:12, marinaevora at sapo.pt<mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt> a écrit :

Dear all,

We found this round artifact in an upper paleolithic site. I would like to hear your opinions about the identification of the raw material. The images were taken with a binocular microscope.
Thank you.

Marina Évora

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François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle

CP 56

Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée

55, rue de Buffon

75005 Paris

01 40 79 33 11

fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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Bonetools mailing list
Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu<mailto:Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools

--
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

Marina Évora

P Please consider the impact on the environment before printing this message.

_______________________________________________
Bonetools mailing list
Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu<mailto:Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools

--
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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