[Bonetools] identification of raw material
François Poplin
poplin at mnhn.fr
Thu Jul 10 09:02:12 CEST 2014
J'ai très peu de temps ce matin.
Je voudrais repartir de l'expérience que j'ai de l'espadon :
27POPLIN F., 1975 - Restes de rostre d'Espadon trouvés dans un gisement
néolithique de l'étang de Leucate (Aude). /Bull. Soc. Préhist. Fr/., 72,
/C.R.S.M./, n° 3, 69-70, 1 fig.
Je demande qu'on me ressorte des pièces. A bientôt.
Marina Evora, écrivez-moi en portugais, ce sera mieux.
Expliquez-moi bien comment est fait le trou : est-il foré par l'homme
(is it drilled), ou bien est-ce un conduit naturel, avec une paroi
propre, comme il semble (mais sur une très petite surface) sur vos photos ?
J'ai le souvenir - très mauvais souvenir - de photographies d'une
diaphyse présentant des trous ronds, avec un commentaire qui parlait de
forage ("drilled"), et qui était un commentaire tromper. Les trous
étaient creusés par des larves.
I do like to help, but please, help me to help you.
Le 09/07/2014 22:12, Sonia O'Connor a écrit :
>
> Dear Amy,
>
>
> There is not much compact tissue like this in a whale except in the
> rib or the jaw of toothed cetacean, such as sperm whale. The object
> is small and entirely worked so to determine the species it would be
> necessary to undertake proteomics or DNA studies. These are secondary
> osteon structures. They develop in mammal bone as it matures,
> overwriting the original fibrolamellar structure of the bone to a
> greater or lesser extent. In whale they completely obliterate the
> original lamellar structure of the bone and there is no interstitial
> bone between them.
>
>
> The picture attached is a side view of the same object. Sorry I do
> not have such a close-up view of it but each division on the scale is
> a millimetre.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Sonia
>
>
>
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,
> University of York
> Post-doctoral Researcher
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP
>
> Tel 01274 236498
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu> on behalf of
> Margaris, Amy V. <amy.margaris at oberlin.edu>
> *Sent:* 09 July 2014 20:00
> *To:* Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the
> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> *Subject:* Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
> Thanks Sonia!
> Do you have a side view to share of this same object? I am wondering
> what these features (the Haversian canals?) look like in profile at
> this scale.
> Also, what species and element are we looking at?
>
> Amy
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Sonia O'Connor
> <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk <mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Dear Amy,
>
>
> If I have got the scale right and this object is c 7 mm in
> diameter, then the features are too small for even a small species
> of whale. Also the structure is not like that of mammal bone.
> Here is a picture of mature cetacean bone.
>
>
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,
> University of York
> Post-doctoral Researcher
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP
>
> Tel 01274 236498
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
> <mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>> on behalf of
> Margaris, Amy V. <amy.margaris at oberlin.edu
> <mailto:amy.margaris at oberlin.edu>>
> *Sent:* 09 July 2014 18:13
>
> *To:* Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for
> the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> *Subject:* Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
> Dear Marina,
>
> Could your object be made of cetacean bone?
>
> I can't account for the curious pattern along its cross-section
> (reminds me of tooth/ivory?) but the parallel striae on the
> rounded outer surface (in your third original attachment) look to
> me like the relatively porous regions whale bone.
>
> Amy
>
> and p.s. to Sonia O'Connor: wow, cuttlefish shell is beautiful!
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Sonia O'Connor
> <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk <mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Dear Marina,
> As the lines are part of the material this feature confirms
> that this is definitely not antler.
>
> Sonia
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,
> University of York
> Post-doctoral Researcher
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP
>
> Tel 01274 236498
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
> <mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>> on behalf of
> marinaevora at sapo.pt <mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt>
> <marinaevora at sapo.pt <mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt>>
> Sent: 08 July 2014 13:07
> To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for
> the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
>
> Hi Sonia,
>
> Those lines are part of the material, and it's because of them
> that I
> have doubts about the raw material...
>
> Thank you.
>
> best
> Marina
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Sonia O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk
> <mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>>:
>
> > Dear Marina,
> >
> > I'm not sure what it is from these images. I cannot confirm
> antler.
> > Please can you explain the features indicated in the image I
> have
> > sent back to you.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Sonia
> >
> > Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,
> > University of York
> > Post-doctoral Researcher
> > Archaeological Sciences
> > Division of AGES,
> > University of Bradford
> > Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
> >
> > tel 01274 23 6498
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bonetools [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
> <mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>] On
> > Behalf Of marinaevora at sapo.pt <mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt>
> > Sent: 04 July 2014 15:12
> > To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group
> for the
> > study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> > Subject: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > We found this round artifact in an upper paleolithic site. I
> would
> > like to hear your opinions about the identification of the raw
> > material. The images were taken with a binocular microscope.
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > Marina Évora
> >
> > Please consider the impact on the environment before
> printing this message.
>
>
>
> Marina Évora
>
> Please consider the impact on the environment before printing
> this message.
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Amy V. Margaris
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> Oberlin College
>
> Spring 2014 Office Hours:
> MWF 3:30-4:30 and by appointment
> King 302
>
>
> http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/anthropology/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bonetools mailing list
> Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu <mailto:Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>
>
>
>
> --
> Amy V. Margaris
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> Oberlin College
>
> Spring 2014 Office Hours:
> MWF 3:30-4:30 and by appointment
> King 302
>
>
> http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/anthropology/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bonetools mailing list
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--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
francoispoplin.blogspot.com
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