[Bonetools] identification of raw material

Thu Jul 10 13:53:46 CEST 2014

Dear François,

Thank you for this reference. This will be very useful as this is a material to which l have not yet had access.

All the best,

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP

Tel 01274 236498
________________________________
From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu> on behalf of François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
Sent: 10 July 2014 08:02
To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

J'ai très peu de temps ce matin.

Je voudrais repartir de l'expérience que j'ai de l'espadon :

27 POPLIN F., 1975 - Restes de rostre d'Espadon trouvés dans un gisement néolithique de l'étang de Leucate (Aude). Bull. Soc. Préhist. Fr., 72, C.R.S.M., n° 3, 69-70, 1 fig.

Je demande qu'on me ressorte des pièces. A bientôt.

Marina Evora, écrivez-moi en portugais, ce sera mieux.

Expliquez-moi bien comment est fait le trou : est-il foré par l'homme (is it drilled), ou bien est-ce un conduit naturel, avec une paroi propre, comme il semble (mais sur une très petite surface) sur vos photos ?
J'ai le souvenir -  très mauvais souvenir - de photographies d'une diaphyse présentant des trous ronds, avec un commentaire qui parlait de forage ("drilled"), et qui était un commentaire tromper. Les trous étaient creusés par des larves.

I do like to help, but please, help me to help you.

Le 09/07/2014 22:12, Sonia O'Connor a écrit :

Dear Amy,

There is not much compact tissue like this in a whale except in the rib or the jaw of toothed cetacean, such as sperm whale.  The object is small and entirely worked so to determine the species it would be necessary to undertake proteomics or DNA studies.  These are secondary osteon structures. They develop in mammal bone as it matures, overwriting the original fibrolamellar structure of the bone to a greater or lesser extent. In whale they completely obliterate the original lamellar structure of the bone and there is no interstitial bone between them.

The picture attached is a side view of the same object.  Sorry I do not have such a close-up view of it but each division on the scale is a millimetre.

All the best,

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP

Tel 01274 236498
________________________________
From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu><mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu> on behalf of Margaris, Amy V. <amy.margaris at oberlin.edu><mailto:amy.margaris at oberlin.edu>
Sent: 09 July 2014 20:00
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

Thanks Sonia!
Do you have a side view to share of this same object? I am wondering what these features (the Haversian canals?) look like in profile at this scale.
Also, what species and element are we looking at?

Amy

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Sonia O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk<mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>> wrote:

Dear Amy,

If I have got the scale right and this object is c 7 mm in diameter, then the features are too small for even a small species of whale.  Also the structure is not like that of mammal bone. Here is a picture of mature cetacean bone.

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP

Tel 01274 236498
________________________________
From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu<mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>> on behalf of Margaris, Amy V. <amy.margaris at oberlin.edu<mailto:amy.margaris at oberlin.edu>>
Sent: 09 July 2014 18:13

To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

Dear Marina,

Could your object be made of cetacean bone?

 I can't account for the curious pattern along its cross-section (reminds me of tooth/ivory?) but the parallel striae on the rounded outer surface (in your third original attachment) look to me like the relatively porous regions whale bone.

Amy

and p.s. to Sonia O'Connor: wow, cuttlefish shell is beautiful!

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Sonia O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk<mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Marina,
As the lines are part of the material this feature confirms that this is definitely not antler.

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York
Post-doctoral Researcher
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP

Tel 01274 236498

________________________________________
From: Bonetools <bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu<mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>> on behalf of marinaevora at sapo.pt<mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt> <marinaevora at sapo.pt<mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt>>
Sent: 08 July 2014 13:07
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material

Hi Sonia,!

Those lines are part of the material, and it's because of them that I
have doubts about the raw material...

Thank you.

best
Marina

Quoting Sonia O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk<mailto:S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>>:

> Dear Marina,
>
> I'm not sure what it is from these images.  I cannot confirm antler.
> Please can you explain the features indicated in the image I have
> sent back to you.
>
> All the best,
>
> Sonia
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow,
> University of York
> Post-doctoral Researcher
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES,
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>
> tel 01274 23 6498
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bonetools [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu<mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu>] On
> Behalf Of marinaevora at sapo.pt<mailto:marinaevora at sapo.pt>
> Sent: 04 July 2014 15:12
> To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the
> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> Subject: [Bonetools] identification of raw material
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> We found this round artifact in an upper paleolithic site. I would
> like to hear your opinions about the identification of the raw
> material. The images were taken with a binocular microscope.
> Thank you.
>
>
> Marina Évora
>
> Please consider the impact on the environment before printing this message.

Marina Évora

Please consider the impact on the environment before printing this message.

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--
Amy V. Margaris
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College

Spring 2014 Office Hours:
MWF 3:30-4:30 and by appointment
King 302

http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/anthropology/

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--
Amy V. Margaris
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
Oberlin College

Spring 2014 Office Hours:
MWF 3:30-4:30 and by appointment
King 302

http://new.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/anthropology/

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--
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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