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<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Dear </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">François and Marina</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I have not studied fish hyperostosis but I have just shown these images to Terry
O'Connor and he says that fish hyperostosis seems quite a plausible identification. He is most familiar with
<span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
hyperos</span><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">tosis</span> in haddock (<strong>Melanogrammus aeglefinus</strong>) cleithrum. </span><br>
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<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">All the best,</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', 'Segoe UI WPC', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sonia</span></p>
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Dr Sonia O'Connor <font size="1">PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York</font>
<div>Post-doctoral Researcher</div>
<div>Archaeological Sciences</div>
<div>Division of AGES</div>
<div>University of Bradford</div>
<div>Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tel 01274 236498</div>
</div>
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<hr tabindex="-1" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Bonetools <bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu> on behalf of François Poplin <poplin@mnhn.fr><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 July 2014 14:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material</font>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">Generally speaking, the (outer) skeleton of invertebrates is rather hard (like shell, limestone) and bone lighter, softer. When you test them with a nail, you feel the the first will bite the nail,
an that second will be rather bited, stripped by the nail. The firs sounds "clear, heigh" on a glass table, and the second "dim, low" (a difference you get between heigh and low heated/cooked ceramic). Have you any impression of that kind ?<br>
<br>
AND<br>
I come back to the first three pictures. At a first glimpse, I had the impression that the "hole/central channel" had been drilled - but no : on views 1 and 2, I see as a wall, a sort of lining, more or less as outside (view 3). I have to consider a naturaly
holowed cylinder, a tube or a muff deposited on a (desapeared/decayed) rod - but the lines of picture 2 dont agree... Has the object been scraped (nowadays) on the left part (fig. 2) so as the lines are more clear ? Was it easy to scrape...? ( go back to the
beginning).<br>
<br>
It lets me remember of fish hyperostosis, of the filling of swordfish rostrum/bill...
<br>
Maybe a big part of lamellary fish bone growing and taking in an artery (or some other "ductus")...<br>
<br>
[as far as I know, there is no pipe-like penis bone...]<br>
<br>
Is the outer surface the same all around the thing ? Would you say that the outer is carved/cut by man ?<br>
<br>
!!!<br>
<br>
Le 08/07/2014 14:14, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marinaevora@sapo.pt">
marinaevora@sapo.pt</a> a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<p>Dear François and Paul,<br>
<br>
The site is close to the Atlantic ocean, more or less 3km currently. And during the UP it wouldn't be very far from the ocean either.<br>
Thank you for the images you sent Paul.<br>
<br>
best<br>
Marina<br>
<br>
</p>
<p>Quoting François Poplin <<a href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr">poplin@mnhn.fr</a>>:</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I don't see figure of repeated layering as in the image I was speaking of previously.<br>
That king of layering in "spongy bone" can be (roughly) observed in ossifed costo-sternebral cartilages. But...<br>
<br>
<span>To All,</span></p>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div> </div>
<div><span>Looks like it did not work will need to add each photo as an attachment not part of text from a word doc.</span></div>
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<div><span>Hope this works,</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span>Paul Stokes</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Monday, 7 July 2014, 21:08, Paul Stokes <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:escoffier1951@yahoo.co.uk">
<escoffier1951@yahoo.co.uk></a> wrote:</div>
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<br>
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<div id="yiv2724173303">
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<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_4"><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_8">To All,</span></div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_11"> </div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_11"><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">I've just spent 15mins to trim, soak in boiling water 5mins to soften and cut a slice of antler found laying about the house </span></div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_1_1404762556174_5712"><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_11"> </div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_1_1404762556174_4551">
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>These are the views of slice of antler cut with a saw with 7 teeth per cm. x200 digital microscope</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span><img height="177" width="236" src=""><img height="179" width="239" src=""><img height="179" width="238" src=""><img height="181" width="241" src=""><img height="175" width="240" src=""></span></span></div>
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<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> The attached is photograph of the slice and the piece of antler it was cut from</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">Regards</span></div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_17"> </div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_11"><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">Paul Stokes</span></div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_6">
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<div id="yiv2724173303yqt30442">
<div class="yiv2724173303yqt2935228059" id="yiv2724173303yqt14175">
<div dir="ltr"><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">On Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:03, Sonia O'Connor
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk"><S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk></a> wrote:</span></div>
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<br>
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<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Definitely not cuttlefish bone/shell. I attach a photomicrograph of cuttlefish shell.</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>All the best,</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Sonia</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Dr Sonia O'Connor</span>
<span>PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Post-doctoral Researcher</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Archaeological Sciences</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Division of AGES, </span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>University of Bradford</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK</span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span>tel 01274 23 6498</span></span></div>
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<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><span> </span></span></div>
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<div id="yiv2724173303yqtfd00602">
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b>
<span lang="EN-US">Bonetools [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of</b> François Poplin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 July 2014 12:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bonetools] identification of raw material</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yqtfd84344"> </div>
<div id="yiv2724173303yqtfd74718">
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10"> </span></div>
<div>
<div><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">Is it far away from the ocean ? can you tell wheher it's rather calcium carbonate than phosphate ? The second picture here lets me remember of some invertebrate constructions. Unfortunatley, I have
even not a simple broken cuttle-fish "bone"/shell to go on that way of investigation.<br>
<br>
Le 04/07/2014 16:12, <a href="mailto:marinaevora@sapo.pt" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">
marinaevora@sapo.pt</a> a écrit :</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><br>
<span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">Dear all,<br>
<br>
We found this round artifact in an upper paleolithic site. I would like to hear your opinions about the identification of the raw material. The images were taken with a binocular microscope.<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
Marina Évora<br>
<br>
Please consider the impact on the environment before printing this message.</span><br>
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--
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<pre><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">
François POPLIN
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<pre><span id="yiv2724173303yui_3_16_0_5_1404762556174_10">
Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
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Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
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Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
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CP 56
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l?UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d?Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
francoispoplin.blogspot.com
</pre>
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<p><br>
<br>
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<div class="impComposeSignature"><br>
Marina Évora<br>
<br>
<b><span>P</span></b><b><span> </span></b><b><span>Please consider the impact on the environment before printing this </span></b><b><span>message.</span></b></div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
francoispoplin.blogspot.com
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