[Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object
MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin
benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
Wed Jul 27 10:46:47 CEST 2011
Thank you Jackie, very interesting experiments ! I'll send you the results of
our metal experiment. I agree with you about the hight possibilities of using
these kind of pieces like tool and not only like gaming pieces !
About the Ethan hypothesis (smoothing and burnishing plaster on walls), why not,
but the phalanges are small (some come from young animals) and some of them
present a very small active part... Maybe a very precise work ? And about
grinding small amounts of delicate materials like spices, pigments or
medicines, there isn't a lot of indications in favour of these hypothesis.
There's no traces (micro or macroscopic) of pigments (and the conservation of
some objetcs is quite good) and all the objects present same oblique striations,
all in the same direction.
Thanks for all these ideas and hypothesis !
Marquebielle Benjamin
PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
5, rue du pont Guilheméry
31000 Toulouse
tel : 06 71 33 61 52
e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
________________________________
De : Etan Ayalon <etana at eretzmuseum.org.il>
À : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for thestudy of
object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
Envoyé le : Dim 24 juillet 2011, 8h 06min 43s
Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object
Dear all,
Another possibility of using straight sided phalanges on wet material without
bothering on the problem of the rounded shape of pottery vessels: smoothing and
burnishing plaster on walls! This was done on walls of dwelling houses as well
as of installations (i.e., connected with liquids), on lime-white plaster as
well as on muddy-brown plaster, etc. We are all aware of the beautiful photos
from Africa showing women coating their houses with mud and colors and
burnishing them.
And how about grinding small amounts of delicate materials like spices,
pigments, medicines etc.?
Etan Ayalon
________________________________
From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
[mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 3:03 PM
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study
ofobject and waste of bone,antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object
Hello Jackie, hello Alice
Wonderful ! Thank you for the contact, Alice, and, yes, I would like some
photos of phalanges from Szazhalombatta please, to compare with my objects.
Jackie, this is very interesting and, please, I would like also a copy of your
article and poster, of course.
We tought these objects could be ceramic smoothers because of the oblique
striations of the straight face, and the lack of characteristic traces of hide
or leather working (or other smooth raw material), with very bright polish. The
result of alternative smooth of inside and outside pots is interesting ! We
thought also to experiment the work of metal with a smith and use these objects
like smoothers or during quenching and tempering phase of blade production.
I'll could share the results of this experiment, as Eva said in a previous
message.
Thank you for all these informations !
All the best
Marquebielle Benjamin
PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
5, rue du pont Guilheméry
31000 Toulouse
tel : 06 71 33 61 52
e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
________________________________
De : jacqueline meier <jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com>
À : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
Cc : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of
object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 21h 37min 40s
Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object
Hello,
Alice Choyke forwarded me this thread. At the last ICAZ meeting, I presented a
poster on an experiment that investigated some astragali artifacts that I
studied for my Master's thesis, thanks to Alice. I tried using astragali to
work wet and dry clay and hide and compared the resulting macro and microwear
to wear on flattened astragali artifacts from the Middle Bronze Age sites of
Zagyvapálfalva-Homokbanya and Kisterenye-Hársas in Hungary. If my results would
be of interest to anyone, please email me and I will send you a copy of the
poster and my submitted article for the ICAZ volume.
In my study, the lack of contextual information was very limiting, but I made
several interesting conclusions about the potential of using unmodified
astragali as tools. First, it is very easy to use goat astragali to
hand-burnish pottery and they are very effective burnishers. Second, the
outermost ridges of the medial and lateral bone sides were ground down to a
flat surface after 120 minutes of use. Lastly, microwear developed that was
very similar to that which was present on the bone artifacts: oblique
striations and some micropitting developed. I held the astragali as was
indicated by the handling polish on the artifacts and made clay that was
comparable to the formula and particle size as clay from the site, thus I am
confident in concluding that these flattened astragali were potentially used for
burnishing leather-hard ceramic. Again, context limits this conclusion, but the
wear was assessed with backscatter imaging and looks very similar.
Several key points may be relevant to this thread. One is that astragali do not
have to be pre-flattened to burnish ceramic. Any sharp or raised areas are
quickly removed by the gritty clay. Second, I used astragali to smooth the
inside and outside of round pots and the astragali were flattened straight.
This was not intentionally done, in fact I did not notice it until compared the
profiles of these astragali with those used to experimentally work hide.
Again, I will send this article and poster to anyone who requests a copy. I
look forward to reading about similar experiments with astragali and phalanges.
All the best,
Jackie Meier
jacqueline.meier at uconn.edu
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu> wrote:
If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from
Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You
should also contact Jacquie Meier (jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com) who did some
experiments with these objects.
>
>Best,
>Alice
>
>
>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin
><benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
>Hello Selena, hello Alice
>>
>>Marianne Christensen send to me your article, Alice, about
>>Jászdózsa–Kápolnahalom and there is photo with worked phalanges. We'll
>>begin experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe they'll bring
>>some indications... One of the problem of my object is the context is
>>unclear, most of them was found in wells full of rubbish.
>>Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the author !
>>
>>Best
>>
>>
>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>31000 Toulouse
>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
De : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
>>À : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of
>>object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."
>><bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h 17min 18s
>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object
>>
>>
>>
>>Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall of an
>>oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for astragalii and
>>phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age of Hungary
>>and am not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need to be
>>tried out again and and again because sadly there will not be one right
>>answer to this problem. It is definitely context driven.
>>
>>Alice
>>
>>De : Selena Vitezovic <selenavitezovic at gmail.com>
>>À : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of
>>object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."
>><bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>Envoyé le : Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h 10min 35s
>>
>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>
>>
>>Hello everyone,
>>Hello, Benjamin,
>>
>>Perhaps a little bit out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ
>>conference I saw a poster on astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar
>>usewear pattern, used probably for clay working.
>>
>>This is the link for the abstract, perhaps photos may be found or asked
>>from author.
>>
>>http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383
>>
>>And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use. Some
>>other used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic, seemed to
>>have been flattened before use (probably with sandstone) - although they
>>were most likely used on soft, organic materials, since they have intense
>>polish.
>>
>>
>>best, selena
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <ivrel001 at yahoo.fr>
>>wrote:
>>
>>Hello Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.
>>>Good remark... Phalanges internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree
>>>with you : the (possible) worked surface must be straight and a pottery
>>>generaly isn't.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>Benjamin
>>>
>>>
>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
De : Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen <marloesrijkelijkhuizen at hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>À : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h 02min 49s
>>>
>>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Benjamin
>>>
>>>I couldn't see if it was flattened (before use).
>>>
>>>If used, it should be used for/on something with a flat surface, the
>>>surface is completely flat. (compare the medieval skates, these were used
>>>on ice and have a flat surface, but were sometimes flattened before use).
>>>If used for pottery the surface wouldn't be straight.
>>>
>>>Best, Marloes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100
>>>From: benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Subject: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it isn't.
>>>I send photo of another object where you can see more precisely the
>>>traces. Use wear area is the result of the use/exploitation of the
>>>flatest face of the phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion technique...
>>>The mophologic modification of the bone could be various but never very
>>>important.
>>>
>>>Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage.
>>>Je joins une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément
>>>les stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de
>>>l'exploitation de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut être en
>>>utilisant une technique d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il
>>>n'est jamais très important.
>>>
>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
De : François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
>>>À : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h 20min 16s
>>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object
>>>
>>>Est-il sûr qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un sciage ?
>>>
>>>Would not be sawing traces ?
>>>
>>>Le 01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit :
>>>Hello !
>>>>Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object ?
>>>>It's an young pig phalanx, with use wear traces on the
>>>>internal face, covered by oblique striations. It comes from large
>>>>protohistoric site (possible marketplace) of Toulouse, in the south of
>>>>France (II-I° century BC). About 20 objects was found, a majority made
>>>>of pig phalanxes (young or not) and only two made of bovid pahlanxes.
>>>>Use wear is always located on the same face, with different use degree
>>>>and some objetcs are perforated on the proximal face. We
>>>>thought about a kind of smoother (in relation with potery ? metal ?)
>>>>but objects are realy small and found in various contexts (more often
>>>>in wells full of rubbish).
>>>>Thanks a lot and best regards
>>>>
>>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ Bonetools mailing list
>>>>Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>>>>
>>
>>
>>-- François POPLIN Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie,
>>Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements Responsable du Séminaire
>>d'Anthropozoologie Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle CP 56 Ancien
>>Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée 55, rue de Buffon 75005 Paris 01 40 79 33 11 fax
>>------ 33 14 francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>
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>
--
Jacqueline S. Meier, MSc
Department of Anthropology
Unit 2176, 354 Mansfield Road
University of Connecticut
Storrs, CT 06269
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