<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Thank you Jackie, very interesting experiments ! I'll send you the results of our metal experiment. I agree with you about the hight possibilities of using these kind of pieces like tool and not only like gaming pieces !<br>About the Ethan hypothesis (<span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">smoothing and burnishing plaster on walls), why not, but the phalanges are small (some come from young animals) and some of them present a very small active part... Maybe a very precise work ? </font></span><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">And about grinding small amounts of delicate materials like spices,
pigments or medicines, there isn't a lot of indications in favour of these hypothesis. There's no traces (micro or macroscopic) of pigments (and the conservation of some objetcs is quite good) and all the objects present same oblique striations, all in the same direction.<br><br>Thanks for all these ideas and hypothesis !<br></font></span><div> </div><span style="font-weight:bold;">Marquebielle Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du pont Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr<br><div><br></div><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">De :</span></b> Etan Ayalon <etana@eretzmuseum.org.il><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> "Mailing list for
archaeologists of the research group for thestudy of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools@listserv.niif.hu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Dim 24 juillet 2011, 8h 06min 43s<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object<br></font><br>
<style type="text/css">DIV {
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear all,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">Another possibility of using straight sided phalanges on wet material
without bothering on the problem of the rounded shape of pottery vessels:
smoothing and burnishing plaster on walls! This was done on walls of dwelling
houses as well as of installations (i.e., connected with liquids), on lime-white
plaster as well as on muddy-brown plaster, etc. We are all aware of the
beautiful photos from Africa showing women coating their houses with mud and
colors and burnishing them.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">And how about grinding small amounts of delicate materials like spices,
pigments, medicines etc.?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="000375505-24072011"><font size="2" face="Arial">Etan Ayalon</font></span></div><br>
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="rtl" align="right" lang="he">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu
[mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>MARQUEBIELLE
Benjamin<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 23, 2011 3:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> Mailing
list for archaeologists of the research group for the study ofobject and waste
of bone,antler. ivory and horn.<br><b>Subject:</b> [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re
: protohistoric object<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Hello
Jackie, hello Alice<br><br>Wonderful ! Thank you for the contact, Alice, and,
yes, I would like some photos of phalanges from Szazhalombatta please, to
compare with my objects. Jackie, this is very interesting and, please, I would
like also a copy of your article and poster, of course. <br>We tought these
objects could be ceramic smoothers because of the oblique striations of the
straight face, and the lack of characteristic traces of hide or leather working
(or other smooth raw material), with very bright polish. The result of
alternative smooth of inside and outside pots is interesting ! We thought also
to experiment the work of metal with a smith and use these objects like
smoothers or during quenching and tempering phase of blade production. I'll
could share the results of this experiment, as Eva said in a previous
message.<br>Thank you for all these informations !<br><br>All the best<br>
<div> </div><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Marquebielle
Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du pont
Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail :
benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr<br>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">De :</span></b> jacqueline meier
<jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">À
:</span></b> Alice Choyke <h13017cho@iif.hu><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc :</span></b> "Mailing list for archaeologists of
the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and
horn." <bonetools@listserv.niif.hu><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Ven 22 juillet 2011, 21h 37min
40s<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re:
[Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object<br></font><br>
<div dir="ltr"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hello,</font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Alice
Choyke forwarded me this thread. At the last ICAZ meeting, I presented a poster
on an experiment that investigated some astragali artifacts that I studied for
my Master's thesis, thanks to Alice. I tried using astragali to work wet and dry
clay and hide and compared the resulting macro and microwear to wear on
flattened astragali artifacts from </font><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="COLOR:black;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;">the Middle Bronze Age sites of
Zagyvapálfalva-Homokbanya and Kisterenye-Hársas in Hungary. If my results would
be of interest to anyone, please email me and I will send you a copy of the
poster and my submitted article for the ICAZ
volume. </span></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;">In my study, the lack of
contextual information was very limiting, but I made several interesting
conclusions about the potential of using unmodified astragali as tools. First,
it is very easy to use goat astragali to hand-burnish pottery and they are very
effective burnishers. Second, the outermost ridges of the medial and lateral
bone sides were ground down to a flat surface after 120 minutes of use. Lastly,
microwear developed that was very similar to that which was present on the bone
artifacts: oblique striations and some micropitting developed. I held the
astragali as was indicated by the handling polish on the artifacts and made clay
that was comparable to the formula and particle size as clay from the site, thus
I am confident in concluding that these flattened astragali were
<b>potentially</b> used for burnishing leather-hard ceramic. Again, context
limits this conclusion, but the wear was assessed with backscatter imaging and
looks very similar.<br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;">Several key points may be
relevant to this thread. One is that astragali do not have to be pre-flattened
to burnish ceramic. Any sharp or raised areas are quickly removed by the gritty
clay. Second, I used astragali to smooth the inside and outside of round pots
and the astragali were flattened straight. This was not intentionally done, in
fact I did not notice it until compared the profiles of these astragali with
those used to experimentally work hide. </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;">Again, I will send this article
and poster to anyone who requests a copy. I look forward to reading about
similar experiments with astragali and phalanges.</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;">All the
best,</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;">Jackie
Meier</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacqueline.meier@uconn.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacqueline.meier@uconn.edu">jacqueline.meier@uconn.edu</a></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="LINE-HEIGHT:14px;"><br></span></font>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Alice Choyke <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu">h13017cho@iif.hu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;">
<div>If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from
Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You
should also contact Jacquie Meier (<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com%29+who" target="_blank" href="mailto:jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com%29+who">jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com)
<font color="#000000">who</font></a> did some experiments with these
objects.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Alice<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin
<span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">Hello
Selena, hello Alice<br><br>Marianne Christensen send to me your article,
Alice, about Jászdózsa–Kápolnahalom and there is photo with worked
phalanges. We'll begin experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe
they'll bring some indications... One of the problem of my object is the
context is unclear, most of them was found in wells full of
rubbish.<br>Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the
author !<br><br>Best
<div><br>
<div> </div><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Marquebielle
Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du
pont Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail : <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a><br>
<div><br></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">De :</span></b> Alice Choyke <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu">h13017cho@iif.hu</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">À :</span></b> "Mailing list for archaeologists of
the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory
and horn." <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h
17min 18s<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re:
[Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object<br></font>
<div><br>
<div>Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall
of an oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for
astragalii and phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age
of Hungary and am not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need
to be tried out again and and again because sadly there will not be one
right answer to this problem. It is definitely context driven.</div>
<div> </div></div>
<div>Alice <br><br><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">De :</span></b> Selena Vitezovic <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:selenavitezovic@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:selenavitezovic@gmail.com">selenavitezovic@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">À :</span></b> "Mailing list for archaeologists of
the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory
and horn." <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h
10min 35s
<div><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re:
[Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object<br></div></font>
<div><br>Hello everyone, <br>Hello, Benjamin, <br><br>Perhaps a little bit
out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ conference I saw a poster on
astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar usewear pattern, used
probably for clay working. <br>This is the link for the abstract, perhaps
photos may be found or asked from author. <br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383">http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383</a>
<br><br>And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use.
Some other used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic, seemed to
have been flattened before use (probably with sandstone) - although they
were most likely used on soft, organic materials, since they have intense
polish. <br><br>best, selena <br><br></div></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE
Benjamin <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ivrel001@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:ivrel001@yahoo.fr">ivrel001@yahoo.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">Hello
Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.<br>Good remark... Phalanges
internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree with you : the (possible)
worked surface must be straight and a pottery generaly
isn't.<br><br>Best<br>Benjamin
<div><br>
<div> </div><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Marquebielle
Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du
pont Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail : <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a><br>
<div><br></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">De :</span></b> Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:marloesrijkelijkhuizen@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marloesrijkelijkhuizen@hotmail.com">marloesrijkelijkhuizen@hotmail.com</a>>
<div><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">À :</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h
02min 49s
<div><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re:
[Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object<br></div></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Benjamin<br> <br>I couldn't see if it was flattened
(before use). <br> <br>If used, it should be used for/on something
with a flat surface, the surface is completely flat. (compare the medieval
skates, these were used on ice and have a flat surface, but were sometimes
flattened before use). If used for pottery the surface wouldn't be
straight.<br> <br>Best, Marloes<br><br> <br>
<div>
<hr>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100<br>From: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a><br>To:
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br>Subject:
[Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object<br><br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">No,
it isn't.<br>I send photo of another object where you can see more
precisely the traces. Use wear area is the result of the use/exploitation
of the flatest face of the phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion
technique... The mophologic modification of the bone could be various but
never very important.<br><br>Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage. <br>Je joins
une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément les
stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de
l'exploitation de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut être en
utilisant une technique d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il
n'est jamais très important.<br>
<div> </div><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Marquebielle
Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du
pont Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail : <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a><br>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><br>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">De :</span></b> François Poplin <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr">poplin@mnhn.fr</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">À :</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h
20min 16s<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Objet :</span></b>
Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object<br></font><br>Est-il sûr qu'il ne
s'agit pas d'un sciage ?<br><br>Would not be sawing traces ?<br><br>Le
01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit :
<blockquote>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">Hello
!<br>Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object
? It's an young <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">pig
phalanx</span>, with <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">use wear
traces on the internal face</span>, covered by oblique striations. It
comes from large <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">protohistoric
site</span> (possible marketplace) of Toulouse, in the south of France
(II-I° century BC). About 20 objects was found, a majority made of pig
phalanxes (young or not) and only two made of bovid pahlanxes. Use wear
is always located on the same face, with different use degree and some
objetcs are <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">perforated on the
proximal face</span>. We thought about a kind of <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">smoother </span>(in relation with
potery ? metal ?) but objects are realy small and found in various
contexts (more often in <span style="TEXT-DECORATION:underline;">wells</span> full of
rubbish).<br>Thanks a lot and best regards<br>
<div> </div><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Marquebielle
Benjamin</span><br>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<br>5, rue du
pont Guilheméry<br>31000 Toulouse<br>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<br>e-mail : <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</a><br>
<div><br></div></div><pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
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