[Bonetools] fish hook paper

Mon May 6 12:51:43 CEST 2013

Dear Sonia O'Connor,

in the mean time, I wrote (May the 3rd) to the one of four authors 
provided/equiped with e-mail :

/"woher stammt die braune/dunkle Farbe des Hackens Fig. 4 Ihres 
Aufsatzes im /Journal of Archaeological Science/? Von plus minus 
Mohr/Torf Bedingungen ? oder vom Hitzen, Verkohlung ? Sind die andere 
Knochenfunden so dunkel ?

Ist die Fläche die man sieht unbearbeitet ("natur") oder bearbeitet ? 
Und wie ist die andere Seite ?/ /

Im Fig. 4 meines pdf haben Sie, in der Mitte, die unbearbeitete 
Oberfläche der Dentin (da ist Zement/Cementum weg). Ist-es dieselbe 
Situation ?/ /

Könnten-Sie, Bitte, die Legende auf deutsch übersetzen ?/"

I have no answer till now.

The use of word "tubes" (alias and more academically "tubules" (lat. 
/tubuli/, as in the walls of warmed rooms in roman baths) is very 
problematic(ophor), with a 90° change of sense from what tubuli are 
(lodging the "umbilical cord" of ondontoblasts, I would say, from te 
outer surface of dentine to pulp, ie. radially in the tusk), to the 
longitunal groove/flute/fluting of the interfaces, the most important 
and ready to gape/yawn being the first, between cementum and "true 
ivory" = dentin.

This 90° = orthogonal misconstruction is very luckless, arranged in pair 
with the ambiguous concept of (let us say in latin) /canalis/, which 
refers both/either to open air channels and/or to tubes. You in the 
Bristish Isles and me in France can join us either crossing the Channel 
or travelling through a giant Tube in the Shuttle. The structural 
surfaces (inner ones) of cementum and dentine wear "open channelets", 
the lodgings of odontoblasts extension are tiny tubes/tubules//tubuli./
Your//english fluting is important to consider when dealing with flute 
made at the first interface - you certainly see what I mean and don't 
dare that much to express.
I do think that we have to pay attention to words, as they are the 
handles of ideas.

/Nota : /I must say that I had to recall keepsakes, learnt some 
decennies ago : I was confused with Tomes'fibers, which are in enamel, 
indeed ; if their equivalents in dentine, theese "umbilical cords" of 
ondotoblasts, had a proper name too, it would be not so confusing)./

/With my best regards.

Le 29/04/2013 13:49, S O'Connor a écrit :
> Dear François,
>
> Your English is excellent!  The statement in this paper relating to the
> identification of the material is nonsense because the authors clearly do
> not understand the structure of ivory. Of course, there are no dentinal
> tubules in cementum!
>
> I think you will agree that the photographs in the paper do seem to indicate
> that this is proboscidean ivory, as the detail (c) shows texturing typical
> of the surface of this dentine when it delaminates concentrically. The
> images are not very good but I cannot see any convincing evidence of
> cementum layers on the fishhook. Perhaps details (b) and (b1) are meant to
> show a surviving fragment of cementum structure?
>
> All the best,
>
> Sonia
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of
> York
> Post-doctoral Reserdarch Fellowrd
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES,
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>
> tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
> fax 01274 23 5210
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
> [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of François Poplin
> Sent: 29 April 2013 09:14
> To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of
> object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] fish hook paper
>
> I open this file/pdf and feel a lack of information, presumably due to my
> poor english : "dentinal tubes in cementum"  : ? Are we in dentine or in
> cementum ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Le 26/04/2013 19:58, Christian Küchelmann a écrit :
>> ... and another recent bonetool publication:
>>
>> Gramsch, Bernhard / Beran, Jonas / Hanik, Susanne / Sommer, Robert S.
>> (2013): A Palaeolithic fishhook made of ivory and the earliest
>> fishhook tradition in Europe. -- Journal of Archaeological Science 40,
>> 2458-2463
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> --
>> KNOCHENARBEIT
>>
>> Hans Christian Küchelmann
>> Diplom-Biologe
>>
>> Konsul-Smidt-Straße 30, D-28217 Bremen, Germany
>> tel: +49 - 421 - 61 99 177
>> fax: +49 - 421 - 37 83 540
>> mail: info at knochenarbeit.de
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
> François POPLIN
>
> Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés,
> pratiques et environnements
>
> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>
> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
> CP 56
> Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
> 55, rue de Buffon
> 75005 Paris
> 01 40 79 33 11
> fax ------ 33 14
>
> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>
>
>
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-- 
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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