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Dear Sonia O'Connor,<br>
<br>
in the mean time, I wrote (May the 3rd) to the one of four authors
provided/equiped with e-mail :<br>
<br>
<i>"woher stammt die braune/dunkle Farbe des Hackens Fig. 4 Ihres
Aufsatzes im </i>Journal of Archaeological Science<i> ? Von plus
minus Mohr/Torf Bedingungen ? oder vom Hitzen, Verkohlung ? Sind
die andere Knochenfunden so dunkel ?<br>
<br>
Ist die Fläche die man sieht unbearbeitet ("natur") oder
bearbeitet ? Und wie ist die andere Seite ?</i> <i><br>
<br>
Im Fig. 4 meines pdf haben Sie, in der Mitte, die unbearbeitete
Oberfläche der Dentin (da ist Zement/Cementum weg). Ist-es
dieselbe Situation ?</i> <i><br>
<br>
Könnten-Sie, Bitte, die Legende auf deutsch übersetzen ?</i>"<br>
<br>
I have no answer till now.<br>
<br>
The use of word "tubes" (alias and more academically "tubules" (lat.
<i>tubuli</i>, as in the walls of warmed rooms in roman baths) is
very problematic(ophor), with a 90° change of sense from what tubuli
are (lodging the "umbilical cord" of ondontoblasts, I would say,
from te outer surface of dentine to pulp, ie. radially in the tusk),
to the longitunal groove/flute/fluting of the interfaces, the most
important and ready to gape/yawn being the first, between cementum
and "true ivory" = dentin.<br>
<br>
This 90° = orthogonal misconstruction is very luckless, arranged in
pair with the ambiguous concept of (let us say in latin) <i>canalis</i>,
which refers both/either to open air channels and/or to tubes. You
in the Bristish Isles and me in France can join us either crossing
the Channel or travelling through a giant Tube in the Shuttle. The
structural surfaces (inner ones) of cementum and dentine wear "open
channelets", the lodgings of odontoblasts extension are tiny
tubes/tubules/<i>tubuli.</i><br>
Your<i> </i>english fluting is important to consider when dealing
with flute made at the first interface - you certainly see what I
mean and don't dare that much to express.<br>
I do think that we have to pay attention to words, as they are the
handles of ideas.<br>
<br>
<i>Nota : </i>I must say that I had to recall keepsakes, learnt
some decennies ago : I was confused with Tomes'fibers, which are in
enamel, indeed ; if their equivalents in dentine, theese "umbilical
cords" of ondotoblasts, had a proper name too, it would be not so
confusing).<i><br>
<br>
</i>With my best regards.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 29/04/2013 13:49, S O'Connor a écrit :
<blockquote
cite="mid:006401ce44cf$a09fa860$e1def920$@Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear François,
Your English is excellent! The statement in this paper relating to the
identification of the material is nonsense because the authors clearly do
not understand the structure of ivory. Of course, there are no dentinal
tubules in cementum!
I think you will agree that the photographs in the paper do seem to indicate
that this is proboscidean ivory, as the detail (c) shows texturing typical
of the surface of this dentine when it delaminates concentrically. The
images are not very good but I cannot see any convincing evidence of
cementum layers on the fishhook. Perhaps details (b) and (b1) are meant to
show a surviving fragment of cementum structure?
All the best,
Sonia
Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of
York
Post-doctoral Reserdarch Fellowrd
Archaeological Sciences
Division of AGES,
University of Bradford
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
fax 01274 23 5210
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>] On Behalf Of François Poplin
Sent: 29 April 2013 09:14
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of
object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] fish hook paper
I open this file/pdf and feel a lack of information, presumably due to my
poor english : "dentinal tubes in cementum" : ? Are we in dentine or in
cementum ?
Thanks
Le 26/04/2013 19:58, Christian Küchelmann a écrit :
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
cite="mid:006401ce44cf$a09fa860$e1def920$@Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">... and another recent bonetool publication:
Gramsch, Bernhard / Beran, Jonas / Hanik, Susanne / Sommer, Robert S.
(2013): A Palaeolithic fishhook made of ivory and the earliest
fishhook tradition in Europe. – Journal of Archaeological Science 40,
2458-2463
Best
Christian
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés,
pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
francoispoplin.blogspot.com
</pre>
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