[Bonetools] spacers and beads

Wed Mar 27 12:42:07 CET 2013

Le 27/03/2013 10:56, Marta Moreno García a écrit :
> Dear Dr Poplin and other members of the list,
>
> I am writing to you in relation to the comment enclosed below about 
> "an example of spacer made of vulture ulna" mentioned in pg 84 of a 
> paper I signed with Simon Davis. In any part of that paper we refer to 
> the possibility of that piece of bone been a spacer.
Excuse me, I don't understand very well this passage and the other, two 
lines further : did you allready speak/:write of spacer (if yes, were 
exactly ?, I did not read the whole text) or is it new for you ?

> I have several publications on similar objects, all from the Iberian 
> Peninsula and dated to the Islamic period (10th-12th AD), you may be 
> aware of (you can download them from my academia.edu page) and in none 
> of them that possibility has ever been considered.
the other passage


> Initially most of these objects were catalogued by the archaeologists 
> as flutes or wind instruments. The morphology of the holes and their 
> variation in the different examples we have examined call for other 
> function. In fact we are more inclined to them being part of a 
> cordophone (string instrument). Also I would like to point out that 
> the illustration shown in the paper enclosed by Poplin belongs to a 
> fragment of the original object.
> Finally, I would like to add that so far we have not identified any of 
> these objects nor any of the Iberian aerophones manufactured on avian 
> ulnae as made from /Gypaetus barbatus. /The morphological and metrical 
> data that support our identifications are published in:
>
> Moreno-García, M.; Pimenta, C.; Gros Herrero, M.*(2005)* . Musical 
> vultures in the Iberian Peninsula : sounds through their wings. In 
> (Grupe, G. & Peters, J., eds.) /Feathers, Grit and Symbolism. Birds 
> and Humans in the Ancient Old and New Worlds. /Proceedings of the 5^th 
> Meeting of the ICAZ Bird Working Group//inMunich (26.7 -- 28.7.2004 ) 
> . (Documenta Archaeobiologiae//3) , pp. 329-347.//Rahden/Westf., Leidorf.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Marta
>
>
>
>
> El 27/03/2013 8:15, François Poplin escribió:
>>
>> The next question is the size of beads, mainly their diameter.
>>
>> I have some trouble to work and search as I would like these days ; 
>> among these difficulties, both librairies of the Sorbonne and the 
>> Collège de France are removing... 3 hours lost/wasted. I went to the 
>> Institut du Monde arabe in order to find some spacers for you. Maybe 
>> you can reach /Traditional Jewelry of India/, Thames and Hudson ed., 
>> several editions. Two very fine examples from Nagaland p. 66-67, one 
>> with 8 holes, another with 8 and 11.
>>
>> What I want to stress is that the width of spacers is very commonly 
>> the same as the diameter of beads ; easy to understand : it would be 
>> unsuitable to have them on the skin protruding as rails of railway : 
>> it must be as in a level crossing (U. S. grade crossing).
>>
>> Then, what is the usual size/diameter of beads in the 
>> concerned/involved cultures, is the question.
>>
>> On p. 84 of the joint pdf, kindly sent by Simon Davis, you have a an 
>> example of spacer made of vulture ulna (why not bearded /Gypaetus 
>> barbatus/, as very usual for pastoral flutes in recent Greece ?). You 
>> could imagine that the beads themselves were made out of the same 
>> kind on bone - the same diameter, I mean - but there is not enough 
>> bones for that in the skeleton.
>>
>> The largest side of bone wear the carving, the opposite was hidden, 
>> laying on the skin/body or things like that ; there is a rather 
>> strong tendancy in islamic/arabic tradition to/for 
>> "osteoglyphy"/"osteography" (writing, carving of bones, I don't enter 
>> the details).
>>
>> The piece is broken both on a hole and one of the semi-annular groves 
>> (not very young people may remember the medicinal ampoules of glass 
>> and the little saw to open them...). You may imagine with few risks 
>> that it went further at least for another hole (half + one). There is 
>> an idea of symmetry, reasonnably moderated by the lesser 
>> development/witdth at this end.
>>
>> That's all what a can do for today.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Message original --------
>> Sujet: 	Re: tiré à part
>> Date : 	Fri, 8 Mar 2013 08:07:34 +0000
>> De : 	Simon Davis <simonjmdavis at gmail.com> 
>> <mailto:simonjmdavis at gmail.com>
>> Pour : 	François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr> <mailto:poplin at mnhn.fr>
>>
>>
>>
>> peut-etre c'est ça?
>> davis
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>     François POPLIN
>>
>>     Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique
>>     : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
>>
>>     Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>>
>>     Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>>     CP 56
>>     Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
>>     55, rue de Buffon
>>     75005 Paris
>>     01 40 79 33 11
>>     fax ------ 33 14
>>
>>     francoispoplin.blogspot.com <http://francoispoplin.blogspot.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Simon JM Davis,
>> Zooarqueologia, Laboratório de Arqueociências,
>> IGESPAR,
>> Rua da Bica do Marquês, 2
>> 1300-087 Lisbon (Portugal)
>>
>> There was nothing, then dinosaurs, then
>> There were mammals, and finally men,
>>      Who ruled for a while
>>      In belligerent style,
>> And then there was nothing again
>>                           (Gerard Benson)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Dra. Marta Moreno-García
> G.I. Arqueobiología.
> Instituto de Historia
> Centro de Ciencias Humanas y Sociales (CCHS). CSIC
> Albasanz 26-28. 28037 Madrid. Spain
> Tel: +34 91 6022384
> e-mail:marta.moreno at cchs.csic.es  <mailto:marta.moreno at cchs.csic.es>
>
>
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-- 
François POPLIN

Directeur honoraire de l'UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements

Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie

Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d'Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14

francoispoplin.blogspot.com

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