[Bonetools] The two pieces of the Louvre.

Sat Mar 23 17:40:09 CET 2013

Dear Eric,
We have an expert in Israel on textile and weaving, Dr. Orit Shamir. I'll send her your question about the vertical loom tomorrow. However there is a difficulty if these pieces originated in a loom: I'm not sure there were vertical looms in use in Neolithic Greece (in Egypt, for instance, horizontal looms were the earliest and only in the Chalcolithic period), and in the Late Roman and Byzantine periods in Palestine (i.e. 2nd-7th centuries CE) vertical looms have already been replaced by diagonal ones (i.e. without loom weights).
And yes, I think Prof. Poplin wrote earlier that the Louvre items were Egyptian.
Etan  

________________________________

מאת: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu בשם FARRELL E.R.
נשלח: ו 22/03/2013 20:47
אל: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
נושא: Re: [Bonetools] The two pieces of the Louvre.

Dear all,

These spacer beads do seem to be the most similar form to what I have; the two from the Louvre, the neolithic Greek examples, and one from Dr. Ayalon's Caesarea Maritima publication all seem to be roughly the same size and shape with similar treatment of the holes.

Based on the comparisons I suspect the object I am working with is a spacer bead, or at the very least that represents the most likely interpretation available at the moment. My one concern with my specific example is the wear pattern. The second picture of examples Mr. Ifantidis provided gives several different arrangements using a spacer bead and I can understand how the wear might be different depending on that arrangement. 

I cannot manage to figure out a way to arrange beadwork which would wear only one hole. Even the furthest hole on the obviously broken end (very little of that furthest hole remains, but it can be seen) shows no wear. It seems as if it should have wear on at least two holes at each end to have use as a spacer bead, which would imply that both ends have been broken and reshaped, and several centimeters in length are missing. 

Also, for the two examples at the Louvre, Dr. Poplin, do you know the date or culture they originate from? Considering I now know there are similar items from Neolithic Greece and Roman Syria I doubt I can make a judgement of date for my object based on comparisons, but I would still very much like to know, particularly if the Louvre objects are from an Egyptian collection.

As I was writing the above, a colleague saw the archaeological drawing of my artefact, and immediately suggested a particular type of loom spacer used to attach a tablet-woven border to a plain-woven cloth on a vertical loom. Apparently it would be tied only at the end (accounting for the odd wear), with loose thread separated in the remaining holes. I have not yet seen a photo or drawing of one of these so don't know if it is a feasible option, but is anyone else familiar with such an object? I know a couple people suggested this might be a weaving tablet early on. I will try to find an image, or at least a better description for comparison.

Thanks,

Erik Farrell

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From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu [bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] on behalf of Fotis Ifantidis [fotisif at gmail.com]
Sent: 22 March 2013 16:23
To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] The two pieces of the Louvre.

Dear all,

To add to Erik’s inquiry on the interpretation of his multi-holed object, I have two bone objects from MN/LN Dispilio in Greece, which I am almost certain that are spacers for bead necklaces. Also attached is a figure from my 2006 MA study of similar finds from various contexts. I could also provide some other references if you wish.

Best,

Fotis

http://auth.academia.edu/fotisifantidis

visualizingneolithic.com <http://visualizingneolithic.com/> 

theotheracropolis.com <http://theotheracropolis.com/> 

kalaureiainthepresent.org <http://kalaureiainthepresent.org/> 

spondylus.wordpress.com <http://spondylus.wordpress.com/> 

2013/3/22 Fran?ois Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>

	Dear Erik Farrell
	and everybody

	the Providence gives only two pieces, but ideal ones : the one is complete, giving the dimentions and the number of holes, the other is broken (as yours), giving some "interior" comparison points and, maybe, the opportunity to go further into the material : would you go to histological prepartion/polishing on the breake? That was the question behind when I  wrote "Haversian or not haversian, that's the question". I can at least ask at the Louvre.

	The two picture are property of the Mus?e du Louvre and unpublished. Please, no official use without permission  of dominique.benazeth at louvre.fr

	I have not seen yet the two pieces.

	Your's faithfully.

	------- Message original -------- 
Sujet: 	RE: photos de deux objets en os de la section copte	
Date : 	Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:38:47 +0100	
De : 	Delassus Marie <Marie.Delassus at louvre.fr> <mailto:Marie.Delassus at louvre.fr> 	
Pour : 	'Fran?ois Poplin' <poplin at mnhn.fr> <mailto:poplin at mnhn.fr> 	

	Je vous fais parvenir sous forme num?rique les deux photos que je vous ai imprim?es mardi dernier. Ces deux objets sont inventori?s sous le num?ro E 328 j. 

	Ils proviennent de la collection Clot-Bey acquise en juillet 1852. 

	Je vous en redonne les dimensions : 

	-objet complet : L . : 4,5 cm ; l. : 0,8 cm ; ?p. : 0,33 cm 

	-objet fragmentaire : L. : 3,54 cm ; l. : 0,8 cm ; ?p. : 0,32 cm 

	Je suis tout ? fait partante pour que vous diffusiez ? vos coll?gues ces images. 

	Marie Delassus

	-- 
	Fran?ois POPLIN 

	Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Arch?ozoologie, Arch?botanique : soci?t?s, pratiques et environnements 

	Responsable du S?minaire d'Anthropozoologie 

	Mus?um national d'Histoire naturelle 
	CP 56 
	Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie compar?e 
	55, rue de Buffon 
	75005 Paris 
	01 40 79 33 11 
	fax ------ 33 14 

	francoispoplin.blogspot.com <http://francoispoplin.blogspot.com/> 

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