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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Dear Eric,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We have an expert in Israel on textile and weaving, Dr. Orit Shamir. I'll send her your question about the vertical loom tomorrow. However there is a difficulty if these pieces originated in a loom: I'm not sure there were vertical looms in use in Neolithic Greece (in Egypt, for instance, horizontal looms were the earliest and only in the Chalcolithic period), and in the Late Roman and Byzantine periods in Palestine (i.e. 2nd-7th centuries CE) vertical looms have already been replaced by diagonal ones (i.e. without loom weights).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>And yes, I think Prof. Poplin wrote earlier that the Louvre items were Egyptian.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Etan </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV dir=rtl><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>îàú:</B> bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu áùí FARRELL E.R.<BR><B>ðùìç:</B> å 22/03/2013 20:47<BR><B>àì:</B> bonetools@listserv.niif.hu<BR><B>ðåùà:</B> Re: [Bonetools] The two pieces of the Louvre.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear all,<BR><BR>These spacer beads do seem to be the most similar form to what I have; the two from the Louvre, the neolithic Greek examples, and one from Dr. Ayalon's Caesarea Maritima publication all seem to be roughly the same size and shape with similar treatment of the holes.<BR><BR>Based on the comparisons I suspect the object I am working with is a spacer bead, or at the very least that represents the most likely interpretation available at the moment. My one concern with my specific example is the wear pattern. The second picture of examples Mr. Ifantidis provided gives several different arrangements using a spacer bead and I can understand how the wear might be different depending on that arrangement. <BR><BR>I cannot manage to figure out a way to arrange beadwork which would wear only one hole. Even the furthest hole on the obviously broken end (very little of that furthest hole remains, but it can be seen) shows no wear. It seems as if it should have wear on at least two holes at each end to have use as a spacer bead, which would imply that both ends have been broken and reshaped, and several centimeters in length are missing. <BR><BR>Also, for the two examples at the Louvre, Dr. Poplin, do you know the date or culture they originate from? Considering I now know there are similar items from Neolithic Greece and Roman Syria I doubt I can make a judgement of date for my object based on comparisons, but I would still very much like to know, particularly if the Louvre objects are from an Egyptian collection.<BR><BR><BR><BR>As I was writing the above, a colleague saw the archaeological drawing of my artefact, and immediately suggested a particular type of loom spacer used to attach a tablet-woven border to a plain-woven cloth on a vertical loom. Apparently it would be tied only at the end (accounting for the odd wear), with loose thread separated in the remaining holes. I have not yet seen a photo or drawing of one of these so don't know if it is a feasible option, but is anyone else familiar with such an object? I know a couple people suggested this might be a weaving tablet early on. I will try to find an image, or at least a better description for comparison.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Erik Farrell<BR><BR>
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<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr" id=divRpF613747><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu [bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu] on behalf of Fotis Ifantidis [fotisif@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 22 March 2013 16:23<BR><B>To:</B> Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bonetools] The two pieces of the Louvre.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>Dear all,</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>To add to Erik’s inquiry on the interpretation of his multi-holed object, I have two bone objects from MN/LN Dispilio in Greece, which I am almost certain that are spacers for bead necklaces. Also attached is a figure from my 2006 MA study of similar finds from various contexts. I could also provide some other references if you wish.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>Best,</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US>Fotis</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://auth.academia.edu/fotisifantidis" target=_blank>http://auth.academia.edu/fotisifantidis</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://visualizingneolithic.com/" target=_blank>visualizingneolithic.com</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://theotheracropolis.com/" target=_blank>theotheracropolis.com</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://kalaureiainthepresent.org/" target=_blank>kalaureiainthepresent.org</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A href="http://spondylus.wordpress.com/" target=_blank>spondylus.wordpress.com</A></SPAN></P><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2013/3/22 François Poplin <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr" target=_blank>poplin@mnhn.fr</A>></SPAN><BR>
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<DIV>Dear Erik Farrell<BR>and everybody<BR><BR>the Providence gives only two pieces, but ideal ones : the one is complete, giving the dimentions and the number of holes, the other is broken (as yours), giving some "interior" comparison points and, maybe, the opportunity to go further into the material : would you go to histological prepartion/polishing on the breake? That was the question behind when I wrote "Haversian or not haversian, that's the question". I can at least ask at the Louvre.<BR><BR>The two picture are property of the Musée du Louvre and unpublished. Please, no official use without permission of <A href="mailto:dominique.benazeth@louvre.fr" target=_blank>dominique.benazeth@louvre.fr</A><BR><BR>I have not seen yet the two pieces.<BR><BR>Your's faithfully.<BR><BR><BR>------- Message original --------
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<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap align=right>Sujet: </TH>
<TD>RE: photos de deux objets en os de la section copte</TD></TR>
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<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap align=right>Date : </TH>
<TD>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:38:47 +0100</TD></TR>
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<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap align=right>De : </TH>
<TD>Delassus Marie <A href="mailto:Marie.Delassus@louvre.fr" target=_blank><Marie.Delassus@louvre.fr></A></TD></TR>
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<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap align=right>Pour : </TH>
<TD>'François Poplin' <A href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr" target=_blank><poplin@mnhn.fr></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P>Je vous fais parvenir sous forme numérique les deux photos que je vous ai imprimées mardi dernier. Ces deux objets sont inventoriés sous le numéro E 328 j. </P>
<P>Ils proviennent de la collection Clot-Bey acquise en juillet 1852. </P>
<P>Je vous en redonne les dimensions : </P>
<P>-objet complet : L . : 4,5 cm ; l. : 0,8 cm ; ép. : 0,33 cm </P>
<P>-objet fragmentaire : L. : 3,54 cm ; l. : 0,8 cm ; ép. : 0,32 cm </P>
<P>Je suis tout à fait partante pour que vous diffusiez à vos collègues ces images. </P><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U> <U></U></SPAN>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Marie Delassus<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN><BR><U></U><U></U> </P><PRE>-- <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>François POPLIN <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE><U></U> <U></U></PRE><PRE>Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE><U></U> <U></U></PRE><PRE>Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE><U></U> <U></U></PRE><PRE>Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>CP 56 <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>55, rue de Buffon <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>75005 Paris <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>01 40 79 33 11 <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE>fax ------ 33 14 <U></U><U></U></PRE><PRE><U></U> <U></U></PRE><PRE><A href="http://francoispoplin.blogspot.com/" target=_blank>francoispoplin.blogspot.com</A><U></U><U></U></PRE></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Bonetools mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target=_blank>Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A><BR><A href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools" target=_blank>https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=both>______________________________________________________________________<BR>This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.<BR>For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com<BR>______________________________________________________________________<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>