[Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?

[Sonja Vukovic]

Dear all,

thank you for the responses.. As Selena told you, it was found within the
secure context and there is no doubt in it. As for the identification, I am
not versed in it, but I am sure that it was identified professionaly. I
will ask Sofija about the photos, but as it will be published soon, we can
forward you the paper..

But no one answered our original question: *Has** anyone ever identified a
mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman period*?

Thank you,
greetings from Belgrade,

Sonja


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 7:36 PM, S O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>wrote:

> That is the other Banerjee paper I was asking about.  If anyone has got
> them I would be really grateful for a copy............
>
> Sonia
>
> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of
> York
> Post-doctoral Research Fellow
> Archaeological Sciences
> Division of AGES,
> University of Bradford
> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>
> tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
> fax 01274 23 5210
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu [mailto:
> bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of trzaska at lineone.net
> Sent: 17 April 2013 13:15
> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>
> This would need to be checked but I think I am right in believing that a
> merovingian object from Frankfurt Dom was also thought to be mammoth ivory:
>
> Hampel, A. and Bannerjee, A., 1995
> Identifizierung und Differenzierung von Elfenbein am Bespiel des
> merowingerzeitlichen Grabfundes aus dem Frankfurter Dom, Archäologisches
> Korrespondenzblatt 25, 143-7
>
>
>
> From a secure context as well I think, but is it mammoth ?
>
>
>
> Ian Riddler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >----Original Message----
>
> >From: selenavitezovic at gmail.com
>
> >Date: 17/04/2013 12:42
>
> >To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study
> of
>
> >       object and waste of bone,
>
> >       antler. ivory and horn."<bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>
> >Subj: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>
> >
>
> >Hello, everyone,
>
> >
>
> >The item is from the secured context, it was discovered during the
>
> >excavations conducted by Sofija Petković herself.
>
> >As to the photos, it must be checked with Sofija first.
>
> >L'objet était trouvé pendant les fouilles qui était menée par Sofija
>
> >Petković. Il faut verifié avec Sofija pour les photos.
>
> >
>
> >best regards, Selena
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >On 17 April 2013 12:31, S O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Dear Sonja,
>
> >>
>
> >> As François says, it would be useful to know the context for the
> object. Is
>
> >> it possible for us to see some photographs of the fragment?
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >>
>
> >> Sonia
>
> >>
>
> >> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University
> of
>
> >> York
>
> >> Post-doctoral Research Fellow
>
> >> Archaeological Sciences
>
> >> Division of AGES,
>
> >> University of Bradford
>
> >> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>
> >>
>
> >> tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
>
> >> fax 01274 23 5210
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
>
> >> From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
>
> >> [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of François
> Poplin
>
> >> Sent: 17 April 2013 09:11
>
> >> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>
> >>
>
> >> Dear SA O'Connor
>
> >>
>
> >> 1°) I am affraid, but the fact that has not been answered my question
> "Has
>
> >> it been found in a genuine and secure archaelogical excavation ?"
>
> >> sounds bad,
>
> >>
>
> >> 2°) in that very case, there is a mighty, excellent way to know. Who can
>
> >> tell ? (Olivier please, keep quite for some days).
>
> >>
>
> >> Your's.
>
> >>
>
> >> Le 16/04/2013 14:32, SA O'Connor a écrit :
>
> >> > Dear Sonja,
>
> >> >
>
> >> > I would be really interested in knowing the basis of this
>
> >> > identification. If this is based on Schreger angle measurements, it
>
> >> > may not be possible to differentiate mammoth from extant elephant with
>
> >> > any confidence from a fragment.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > Only the outer Schreger angles are diagnostic, i.e. those in the
>
> >> > outermost layers of the dentine, close to the cementum covering of the
>
> >> > tusk. Towards the centre of a tusk the angles become progressively
>
> >> > smaller and similar in character whether the tusk is from an extant
>
> >> > and extinct proboscidean species. So, even if the Schreger angles
>
> >> > average less than 100 or even 90 degrees, unless traces of the
>
> >> > cementum are visible the fragment might come from any position in the
>
> >> > tusk and could be elephant or mammoth.
>
> >> >
>
> >> > All the best,
>
> >> >
>
> >> > Sonia
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> > kQuoting Sonja Vukovic <sonja.vukovic at gmail.com>:
>
> >> >
>
> >> >> Dear colleagues,
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> I am forwarding you a query from our colleague, Dr Sofija Petkovic
>
> >> >> from the Institute of Archaeology in Belgrade. She is analysing an
>
> >> >> object made of the mammoth tusk, found in Romuliana (Serbia), that
>
> >> >> dates back to the Roman period. The object is fragmented and it
>
> >> >> represents an elephant's head done in a relief. The function of this
>
> >> >> item is unclear, but it was probably an application for some kind of
>
> >> >> furniture or sarcophagi, etc..
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> She is wondering weather anyone has ever identified a mammoth tusk as
>
> >> >> raw material in Roman period?!
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> Anyway, she is going to publish this object soon!
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> Thank you very much,
>
> >> >> best wishes,
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> Sonja
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> --
>
> >> >> Sonja Vukovic
>
> >> >> Laboratory for bioarchaeology
>
> >> >> Faculty of Philosophy
>
> >> >> University of Belgrade
>
> >> >> Serbia
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> >
>
> >> > _______________________________________________
>
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>
> >> > https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
> >> >
>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> François POPLIN
> >>
> >> Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique :
> >> sociétés,
> >> pratiques et environnements
> >>
> >> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
> >>
> >> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
> >> CP 56
> >> Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
> >> 55, rue de Buffon
> >> 75005 Paris
> >> 01 40 79 33 11
> >> fax ------ 33 14
> >>
> >> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
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-- 
Sonja Vukovic
Laboratory for bioarchaeology
Faculty of Philosophy
University of Belgrade
Serbia
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