[Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object

Sat Jul 23 17:03:20 CEST 2011

Mit herzlichen Grüssen: István Zalai-Gaál

Prof. Dr. István Zalai-Gaál 
scientific consultant 
Archaeological Institute of the 
Hungarian Academy of Sciences 
H-1014 Budapest, Úri u. 49., Hungary 
Tel: +36-1-224-6700/294 
e-mail:zgi at archeo.mta.hu 
Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)

---------- Original Message -----------
From: MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr> 
To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu> 
Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:03:24 +0100 (BST) 
Subject: [Bonetools] Re :  Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object

> Hello Jackie, hello Alice
> 
> Wonderful ! Thank you for the contact, Alice, and, yes, I would like some photos of phalanges from Szazhalombatta please, to compare with my objects. Jackie, this is very interesting and, please, I would like also a copy of your article and poster, of course. 
> We tought these objects could be ceramic smoothers because of the oblique striations of the straight face, and the lack of characteristic traces of hide or leather working (or other smooth raw material), with very bright polish. The result of alternative smooth of inside and outside pots is interesting ! We thought also to experiment the work of metal with a smith and use these objects like smoothers or during quenching and tempering phase of blade production. I'll could share the results of this experiment, as Evasaid in a previous message.
> Thank you for all these informations !
> 
> All the best
> 
>  Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
De : jacqueline meier <jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com>
> Ă€ : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
> Cc : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 21h 37min 40s
> Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> Alice Choyke forwarded me this thread. At the last ICAZ meeting, I presented a poster on an experiment that investigated some astragali artifacts that I studied for my Master's thesis, thanks to Alice. I tried using astragali to work wet and dry clay and hide and compared the resulting macro and microwear to wear on flattened astragali artifacts from the Middle Bronze Age sitesof Zagyvapálfalva-Homokbanya and Kisterenye-Hársas in Hungary. If my results would be of interest to anyone, please email me and I will send you a copy of the poster and my submitted article for the ICAZ volume. 
> 
> 
> In my study, the lack of contextual information was very limiting, but I made several interesting conclusions about the potential of using unmodified astragali as tools. First, it is very easy to use goat astragali to hand-burnish pottery and they are very effective burnishers. Second, the outermost ridges of the medial and lateral bone sides were ground down to a flat surface after 120 minutes of use. Lastly, microwear developed that was very similar to that which was present on the bone artifacts: oblique striations and some micropitting developed. I held the astragali as was indicated by the handling polish on the artifacts and made clay that was comparable to the formulaand particle size as clay from the site, thus I am confident in concluding that these flattened astragali were potentially used for burnishing leather-hard ceramic. Again, context limits this conclusion, but the wear was assessed with backscatter imaging and looks very similar.
> 
> 
> 
> Several key points may be relevant to this thread. One is that astragali do not have to be pre-flattened to burnish ceramic. Any sharp or raised areas are quickly removed by the gritty clay. Second, I used astragali to smooth the inside and outside of round pots and the astragali were flattened straight. This was not intentionally done, in fact I did not notice it until compared the profiles of these astragali with those used to experimentally work hide. 
> 
> 
> Again, I will send this article and poster to anyone who requests a copy. I look forward to reading about similar experiments with astragali and phalanges.
> 
> 
> All the best,
> Jackie Meier
> jacqueline.meier at uconn.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu> wrote:
> 
> If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You should also contact Jacquie Meier (jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com) who did some experiments with these objects.
>  
> Best,
> Alice
> 
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Selena, hello Alice
> 
> Marianne Christensen send to me your article, Alice, about [UTF-8?]JĂĄszdĂłzsaâ€“KĂĄpolnahalom and there is photo with worked phalanges. We'll begin experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe they'll bring some indications... One of the problem of my object is the context is unclear, most of them was found in wells full of rubbish.
> Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the author !
> 
> Best
> 
>  Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
De : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
> Ă€ : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h 17min 18s
> Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object
> 
> 
> Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall of an oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for astragalii and phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age of Hungary and am not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need to be tried out again andand again because sadly there will not be one right answer to this problem. It is definitely context driven.
>  
> Alice 
> 
> De : Selena Vitezovic <selenavitezovic at gmail.com>
> Ă€ :"Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study ofobject and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> Envoyé le : Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h 10min 35s
> 
> Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, 
> Hello, Benjamin, 
> 
> Perhapsa little bit out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ conference Isaw a poster on astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar usewear pattern, used probably for clay working. 
> This is the link for the abstract, perhaps photos may be found or asked from author. 
> http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383 
> 
> And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use. Some other used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic, seemed to have been flattened before use (probably with sandstone) - although they were most likely used on soft, organic materials, since they have intense polish. 
> 
> best, selena 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <ivrel001 at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.
> Good remark... Phalanges internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree with you : the (possible) worked surface must be straight and a pottery generaly isn't.
> 
> Best
> Benjamin
> 
>  Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
De : Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen<marloesrijkelijkhuizen at hotmail.com>
> 
> Ă€ : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
> Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h 02min 49s
> 
> Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
> 
> 
> Hi Benjamin
>  
> I couldn't see if it was flattened (before use). 
>  
> If used, it should be used for/on something with a flat surface, the surface is completely flat. (compare the medieval skates, these were used on ice and have a flat surface, but were sometimes flattened before use). If used for pottery the surface wouldn't be straight.
>  
> Best, Marloes
> 
>  
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100
> From: benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
> Subject: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
> 
> No, it isn't.
> I send photo of another object where you can see more precisely the traces. Use wear area is the result of the use/exploitation of the flatest face of the phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion technique... The mophologic modification of the bone could be various but never very important.
> 
> Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage. 
> Je joins une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément les stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de l'exploitation de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut [UTF-8?]ĂŞtre en utilisant une technique d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il n'est jamais [UTF-8?]trĂ¨s important.
> 
>  Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
De : François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
> Ă€ : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
> Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h 20min 16s
> Objet : Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object
> 
> Est-il [UTF-8?]sĂťr qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un sciage ?
> 
> Would not be sawing traces ?
> 
> Le 01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit : 
> Hello !
> Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object ? It's an young pig phalanx, with use wear traces on the internal face, covered by oblique striations. It comes from large protohistoric site (possible marketplace) of Toulouse, in the south of France (II-I° century BC). About 20 objects was found, a majority made of pig phalanxes (young or not) and only two made of bovid pahlanxes. Use wear is always located on the same face, with different use degree and some objetcs are perforated on the proximal face. We thought about a kind of smoother (in relation with potery ? metal ?) but objects arerealy small and found in various contexts (more often in wells full of rubbish).
> Thanks a lot and best regards
> 
>  Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
> 
>
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