[Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object

Sat Jul 23 14:03:24 CEST 2011

Hello Jackie, hello Alice

Wonderful ! Thank you for the contact, Alice, and, yes, I would like some photos 
of phalanges from Szazhalombatta please, to compare with my objects. Jackie, 
this is very interesting and, please, I would like also a copy of your article 
and poster, of course. 

We tought these objects could be ceramic smoothers because of the oblique 
striations of the straight face, and the lack of characteristic traces of hide 
or leather working (or other smooth raw material), with very bright polish. The 
result of alternative smooth of inside and outside pots is interesting ! We 
thought also to experiment the work of metal with a smith and use these objects 
like smoothers or during quenching and tempering phase of blade production. I'll 
could share the results of this experiment, as Eva said in a previous message.
Thank you for all these informations !

All the best

 Marquebielle Benjamin
PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
5, rue du pont Guilheméry
31000 Toulouse
tel : 06 71 33 61 52
e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr

________________________________
De : jacqueline meier <jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com>
À : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
Cc : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of 
object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 21h 37min 40s
Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object

Hello,

Alice Choyke forwarded me this thread. At the last ICAZ meeting, I presented a 
poster on an experiment that investigated some astragali artifacts that I 
studied for my Master's thesis, thanks to Alice. I tried using astragali to work 
wet and dry clay and hide and compared the resulting macro and microwear to wear 
on flattened astragali artifacts from the Middle Bronze Age sites of 
Zagyvapálfalva-Homokbanya and Kisterenye-Hársas in Hungary. If my results would 
be of interest to anyone, please email me and I will send you a copy of the 
poster and my submitted article for the ICAZ volume. 

In my study, the lack of contextual information was very limiting, but I made 
several interesting conclusions about the potential of using unmodified 
astragali as tools. First, it is very easy to use goat astragali to hand-burnish 
pottery and they are very effective burnishers. Second, the outermost ridges of 
the medial and lateral bone sides were ground down to a flat surface after 120 
minutes of use. Lastly, microwear developed that was very similar to that which 
was present on the bone artifacts: oblique striations and some micropitting 
developed. I held the astragali as was indicated by the handling polish on the 
artifacts and made clay that was comparable to the formula and particle size as 
clay from the site, thus I am confident in concluding that these flattened 
astragali were potentially used for burnishing leather-hard ceramic. Again, 
context limits this conclusion, but the wear was assessed with backscatter 
imaging and looks very similar.

Several key points may be relevant to this thread. One is that astragali do not 
have to be pre-flattened to burnish ceramic. Any sharp or raised areas are 
quickly removed by the gritty clay. Second, I used astragali to smooth the 
inside and outside of round pots and the astragali were flattened straight. This 
was not intentionally done, in fact I did not notice it until compared the 
profiles of these astragali with those used to experimentally work hide. 

Again, I will send this article and poster to anyone who requests a copy. I look 
forward to reading about similar experiments with astragali and phalanges.

All the best,
Jackie Meier
jacqueline.meier at uconn.edu

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu> wrote:

If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from 
Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You should 
also contact Jacquie Meier (jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com) who did some 
experiments with these objects.
> 
>Best,
>Alice
>
>
>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin 
><benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
>Hello Selena, hello Alice
>>
>>Marianne Christensen send to me your article, Alice, about 
>>Jászdózsa–Kápolnahalom and there is photo with worked phalanges. We'll begin 
>>experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe they'll bring some 
>>indications... One of the problem of my object is the context is unclear, most 
>>of them was found in wells full of rubbish.
>>Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the author !
>>
>>Best
>>
>>
>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>31000 Toulouse
>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
De : Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
>>À : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of  
>>object and waste of bone,  antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>Envoyé le : Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h 17min 18s
>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object
>>
>>
>>
>>Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall of an 
>>oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for astragalii and 
>>phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age of Hungary and am 
>>not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need to be tried out again 
>>and  and again because sadly there will not be one right answer to this problem. 
>>It is definitely context driven.
>> 
>>Alice 
>>
>>De : Selena Vitezovic <selenavitezovic at gmail.com>
>>À : "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of  
>>object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."  <bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>Envoyé le : Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h 10min 35s
>>
>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>
>>
>>Hello everyone, 
>>Hello, Benjamin, 
>>
>>Perhaps  a little bit out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ conference I  
>>saw a poster on astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar usewear  pattern, 
>>used probably for clay working. 
>>
>>This is the link for the abstract, perhaps photos may be found or asked from 
>>author. 
>>
>>http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383 
>>
>>And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use.  Some other 
>>used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic,  seemed to have been 
>>flattened before use (probably with sandstone) -  although they were most likely 
>>used on soft, organic materials, since  they have intense polish. 
>>
>>
>>best, selena 
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <ivrel001 at yahoo.fr> 
>>wrote:
>>
>>Hello Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.
>>>Good remark... Phalanges internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree with 
>>>you : the (possible) worked surface must be straight and a pottery generaly 
>>>isn't.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>Benjamin
>>>
>>>
>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
De : Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen  <marloesrijkelijkhuizen at hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>À : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h 02min 49s
>>>
>>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] Re :  protohistoric object
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Benjamin
>>> 
>>>I couldn't see if it was flattened (before use). 
>>> 
>>>If used, it should be used for/on something with a flat surface, the surface is 
>>>completely flat. (compare the medieval skates, these were used on ice and have a 
>>>flat surface, but were sometimes flattened before use). If used for pottery the 
>>>surface wouldn't be straight.
>>> 
>>>Best, Marloes
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
________________________________
 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100
>>>From: benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Subject: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it isn't.
>>>I send photo of another object where you can see more precisely the traces. Use 
>>>wear area is the result of the use/exploitation of the flatest face of the 
>>>phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion technique... The mophologic modification 
>>>of the bone could be various but never very important.
>>>
>>>Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage. 
>>>Je joins une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément les 
>>>stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de l'exploitation 
>>>de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut être en utilisant une technique 
>>>d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il n'est jamais très important.
>>>
>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
 De : François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
>>>À : bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>>Envoyé le : Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h 20min 16s
>>>Objet : Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object
>>>
>>>Est-il sûr qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un sciage ?
>>>
>>>Would not be sawing traces ?
>>>
>>>Le 01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit : 
>>>Hello !
>>>>Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object ? It's an 
>>>>young pig phalanx, with use wear traces on the internal face, covered by oblique 
>>>>striations. It comes from large protohistoric site (possible marketplace) of 
>>>>Toulouse, in the south of France (II-I° century BC). About 20 objects was found, 
>>>>a majority made of pig phalanxes (young or not) and only two made of bovid 
>>>>pahlanxes. Use wear is always located on the same face, with different use 
>>>>degree and some objetcs are perforated on the proximal face. We thought about a 
>>>>kind of smoother (in relation with potery ? metal ?) but objects are  realy 
>>>>small and found in various contexts (more often in wells full of rubbish).
>>>>Thanks a lot and best regards
>>>>
>>>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>>>>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>>>>5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>>>>31000 Toulouse
>>>>tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>>>>e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ Bonetools mailing list 
>>>>Bonetools at listserv.niif.hu https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools 
>>>>
>>
>>
>>--  François POPLIN  Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, 
>>Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements  Responsable du Séminaire 
>>d'Anthropozoologie  Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle CP 56 Ancien 
>>Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée 55, rue de Buffon 75005 Paris 01 40 79 33 11 fax 
>>------ 33 14  francoispoplin.blogspot.com 
>>
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>

-- 
Jacqueline S. Meier, MSc
Department of Anthropology
Unit 2176, 354 Mansfield Road
University of Connecticut
Storrs, CT   06269
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