[Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object

Fri Jul 22 20:40:00 CEST 2011

If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from
Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You
should also contact Jacquie Meier (jacqueline.s.meier at gmail.com) who did
some experiments with these objects.

Best,
Alice

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <
benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Hello Selena, hello Alice
>
> Marianne Christensen send to me your article, Alice, about
> Jászdózsa–Kápolnahalom and there is photo with worked phalanges. We'll begin
> experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe they'll bring some
> indications... One of the problem of my object is the context is unclear,
> most of them was found in wells full of rubbish.
> Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the author !
>
> Best
>
>
> Marquebielle Benjamin
> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
> 31000 Toulouse
> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Alice Choyke <h13017cho at iif.hu>
> *À :* "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study
> of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <
> bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> *Envoyé le :* Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h 17min 18s
> *Objet :* Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object
>
> Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall of an
> oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for astragalii and
> phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age of Hungary and
> am not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need to be tried out
> again and and again because sadly there will not be one right answer to this
> problem. It is definitely context driven.
>
> Alice
>
> *De :* Selena Vitezovic <selenavitezovic at gmail.com>
> *À :* "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study
> of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <
> bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
> *Envoyé le :* Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h 10min 35s
>
> *Objet :* Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>
> Hello everyone,
> Hello, Benjamin,
>
> Perhaps a little bit out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ
> conference I saw a poster on astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar
> usewear pattern, used probably for clay working.
> This is the link for the abstract, perhaps photos may be found or asked
> from author.
> http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383
>
> And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use. Some
> other used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic, seemed to have
> been flattened before use (probably with sandstone) - although they were
> most likely used on soft, organic materials, since they have intense polish.
>
>
> best, selena
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <ivrel001 at yahoo.fr>wrote:
>
>> Hello Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.
>> Good remark... Phalanges internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree
>> with you : the (possible) worked surface must be straight and a pottery
>> generaly isn't.
>>
>> Best
>> Benjamin
>>
>>
>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>> 31000 Toulouse
>> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *De :* Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen <marloesrijkelijkhuizen at hotmail.com>
>>
>> *À :* bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>> *Envoyé le :* Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h 02min 49s
>>
>> *Objet :* Re: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>
>>  Hi Benjamin
>>
>> I couldn't see if it was flattened (before use).
>>
>> If used, it should be used for/on something with a flat surface, the
>> surface is completely flat. (compare the medieval skates, these were used on
>> ice and have a flat surface, but were sometimes flattened before use). If
>> used for pottery the surface wouldn't be straight.
>>
>> Best, Marloes
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100
>> From: benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>> Subject: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object
>>
>> No, it isn't.
>> I send photo of another object where you can see more precisely the
>> traces. Use wear area is the result of the use/exploitation of the flatest
>> face of the phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion technique... The
>> mophologic modification of the bone could be various but never very
>> important.
>>
>> Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage.
>> Je joins une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément
>> les stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de
>> l'exploitation de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut être en
>> utilisant une technique d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il
>> n'est jamais très important.
>>
>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>> 31000 Toulouse
>> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *De :* François Poplin <poplin at mnhn.fr>
>> *À :* bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>> *Envoyé le :* Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h 20min 16s
>> *Objet :* Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object
>>
>> Est-il sûr qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un sciage ?
>>
>> Would not be sawing traces ?
>>
>> Le 01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit :
>>
>> Hello !
>> Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object ? It's
>> an young pig phalanx, with use wear traces on the internal face, covered
>> by oblique striations. It comes from large protohistoric site (possible
>> marketplace) of Toulouse, in the south of France (II-I° century BC). About
>> 20 objects was found, a majority made of pig phalanxes (young or not) and
>> only two made of bovid pahlanxes. Use wear is always located on the same
>> face, with different use degree and some objetcs are perforated on the
>> proximal face. We thought about a kind of smoother (in relation with
>> potery ? metal ?) but objects are realy small and found in various contexts
>> (more often in wells full of rubbish).
>> Thanks a lot and best regards
>>
>> Marquebielle Benjamin
>> PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608
>> 5, rue du pont Guilheméry
>> 31000 Toulouse
>> tel : 06 71 33 61 52
>> e-mail : benjamin.marquebielle at yahoo.fr
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bonetools mailing listBonetools at listserv.niif.huhttps://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> François POPLIN
>>
>> Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
>>
>> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>>
>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>> CP 56
>> Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
>> 55, rue de Buffon
>> 75005 Paris
>> 01 40 79 33 11
>> fax ------ 33 14
>> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>>
>>
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