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<p>Dear Sonia,</p>
<p>please, you do not disappoint me in any way. In fact, I am very grateful to you for all your explanations, and of course for your generosity, sharing with us your knowledge.</p>
<p>I thought in the walrus ivory, because of my obvious ignorance...I knew in some way that I was wrong, but it is the first time I see a so well preserved bone and I've never seen before the walrus dentine. Now, after see your photos, I can see and understand much better the structure of the walrus dentine. Thank you very much.</p>
<p>All the bests,</p>
<p>Miriam</p>
<div>---<br />
<pre><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #3366ff; font-family: andale mono,times;">Miriam Luciañez Triviño</span><br /><span style="font-family: andale mono,times;">Contrato Predoctoral del Gobierno Vasco<br /><br />Departamento de Prehistoria y Arqueología<br />Universidad de Sevilla<br />María de Padilla s/n. 41004. Sevilla. Spain<br />Phone: (34) 954 556906<br />Fax: (34) 954 559920<br /><br />E-mail: mlucianez@us.es<br />http://www.departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/web<br />http://www.grupo.us.es/atlas</span></span></pre>
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<p> </p>
<p>El 16/03/2016 16:50, bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu escribió:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">Send Bonetools mailing list submissions to<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><br /> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br /> <a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br /> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><br /> You can reach the person managing the list at<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><br /> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br /> than "Re: Contents of Bonetools digest..."<br /><br /><br /> Today's Topics:<br /><br /> 1. Re: Any idea about this function of this artifact ?<br /> (<a href="mailto:fotisif@gmail.com">fotisif@gmail.com</a>)<br /> 2. Re: Any idea about this function of this artifact ?<br /> (Christopher Arabatzis)<br /> 3. Re: Bonetools Digest, Vol 120, Issue 21 (Sonia O'Connor)<br /><br /><br /> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br /> Message: 1<br /> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:44:31 +0200<br /> From: <a href="mailto:fotisif@gmail.com">fotisif@gmail.com</a><br /> To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the<br /> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."<br /> <<a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Any idea about this function of this artifact<br /> ?<br /> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:05509134-2C88-4334-B7A7-89C0D61B6E47@gmail.com">05509134-2C88-4334-B7A7-89C0D61B6E47@gmail.com</a>><br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br /><br /> Hi Chris <br /> any antler finger rings in your material (similar to the Dispilio ones)? Still this seems to be an intact object and not necessarily debris...<br /> Best<br /> Fotis<br /><br /><br /> Sent from my iPad<br /><br /> 16 ??? 2016, 15:57, ?/? Christopher Arabatzis <<a href="mailto:christ.arabatzis@gmail.com">christ.arabatzis@gmail.com</a>> ??????:<br /><br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Dear all, <br /><br /> I hope you are fine.<br /><br /> I'm attaching a photo of an artifact from a neolithic settlement in Greece that dates back to the second half of the 5th millennium B.C. <br /><br /> Any ideas about its' use are very welcomed.<br /><br /> Best Regards,<br /> Chris<br /> <832a.jpg><br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Bonetools mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a></blockquote>
<br /><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> Message: 2<br /> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:47:43 +0200<br /> From: Christopher Arabatzis <<a href="mailto:christ.arabatzis@gmail.com">christ.arabatzis@gmail.com</a>><br /> To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the<br /> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."<br /> <<a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Any idea about this function of this artifact<br /> ?<br /> Message-ID:<br /> <<a href="mailto:CAMaGw42XWPqTvOob1jYfv=3CKfBr4KKP7woRXKGkeJ575A1vRA@mail.gmail.com">CAMaGw42XWPqTvOob1jYfv=3CKfBr4KKP7woRXKGkeJ575A1vRA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br /> Fotis,<br /> There are only 1-2 antler rings as far as I remember.<br /> Yes, i think that it's intact object as well.<br /><br /> Ariel,<br /> Thank you for your image.<br /><br /><br /><br /> 2016-03-16 17:44 GMT+02:00 <<a href="mailto:fotisif@gmail.com">fotisif@gmail.com</a>>:<br /><br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Hi Chris<br /> any antler finger rings in your material (similar to the Dispilio ones)?<br /> Still this seems to be an intact object and not necessarily debris...<br /> Best<br /> Fotis<br /><br /><br /> Sent from my iPad<br /><br /> 16 ??? 2016, 15:57, ?/? Christopher Arabatzis <<a href="mailto:christ.arabatzis@gmail.com">christ.arabatzis@gmail.com</a>><br /> ??????:<br /><br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Dear all,<br /><br /> I hope you are fine.<br /><br /> I'm attaching a photo of an artifact from a neolithic settlement in</blockquote>
Greece that dates back to the second half of the 5th millennium B.C.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0"><br /> Any ideas about its' use are very welcomed.<br /><br /> Best Regards,<br /> Chris<br /> <832a.jpg><br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Bonetools mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a></blockquote>
<br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Bonetools mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br /><br /></blockquote>
-------------- next part --------------<br /> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/7bcb40d9/attachment-0001.html">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/7bcb40d9/attachment-0001.html</a>><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> Message: 3<br /> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:49:58 +0000<br /> From: Sonia O'Connor <<a href="mailto:S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk">S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk</a>><br /> To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the<br /> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."<br /> <<a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Bonetools Digest, Vol 120, Issue 21<br /> Message-ID:<br /> <<a href="mailto:HE1PR03MB1323BC89A5E30345FB14ABD4CF8A0@HE1PR03MB1323.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com">HE1PR03MB1323BC89A5E30345FB14ABD4CF8A0@HE1PR03MB1323.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>><br /><br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br /> Dear Miriam,<br /> I am sorry to disappoint you but this is definitely not an ivory of any species. It is bone.<br /><br /> I can see why you might mistake the secondary osteon structures of the bone for the whorled secondary dentine of the walrus tusk but you have mistaken the scale of these features. The images in Espinoza and Mann do not show the features of walrus ivory clearly. I have attached a detail from a transverse section of walrus tusk. On the right is a mm scale (showing 3 mm divisions). Next to this you can see the banded (bone-like) outer cementum layer of the tusk, then the primary dentine and, finally, the secondary dentine on the left.<br /><br /> Notice that the primary dentine of walrus ivory is very homogeneous. It is minutely layered and does not contain blood vessels or form repeated bands of variable colour or translucency. The bands in your fragment are not continuous layers. They are formed by circumferentially aligned blocks of bone. This is often called plexiform bone because it looks a bit like a brick wall. Plexiform bone is described and illustrated at <a href="http://www.umich.edu/~bme332/ch9bone/bme332bone.htm">http://www.umich.edu/~bme332/ch9bone/bme332bone.htm</a><br /><br /> You can also see in my image of walrus ivory that the whorled secondary dentine is made up of complex and convoluted structures embedded in a plain dentine matrix. It is quite different in detail to the secondary osteons in your bone, each of which are made of a column of bone laid down around a central blood vessel.<br /><br /> As Alice says, I produced the images and text for a web resource to aid identification of these materials a couple of years ago but, frustratingly, the construction of the site, which is too complex for me to undertake, has yet to be completed (Grrrrrrr!). However, I am always happy to help and share my knowledge.<br /><br /><br /> All the best,<br /><br /> Sonia<br /> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of York<br /> Post-doctoral Researcher<br /> Archaeological Sciences<br /> Division of AGES,<br /> University of Bradford<br /> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK<br /><br /> tel 01274 23 6498<br /><br /> From: Bonetools [mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>] On Behalf Of Miriam Lucia?ez Trivi?o<br /> Sent: 16 March 2016 14:14<br /> To: <a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /> Cc: <a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Bonetools Digest, Vol 120, Issue 21<br /><br /><br /> Hello again,<br /><br /> but do you think this is some kind of dentin? I was thinking in a "rare" (for the context) option: ivory of walrus (Odobenus rosmarus). I've never seen this material "in direct", so I only know it for published photos, like in <a href="https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/resources/pub/E-Ivory-guide.pdf">https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/resources/pub/E-Ivory-guide.pdf</a><br /><br /> Thank you very much,<br /><br /> Miriam<br /> ---<br /><br /> Miriam Lucia?ez Trivi?o<br /> Contrato Predoctoral del Gobierno Vasco<br /><br /> Departamento de Prehistoria y Arqueolog?a<br /> Universidad de Sevilla<br /> Mar?a de Padilla s/n. 41004. Sevilla. Spain<br /> Phone: (34) 954 556906<br /> Fax: (34) 954 559920<br /><br /> E-mail: <a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.es">mlucianez@us.es</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.es">mlucianez@us.es</a>><br /><a href="http://www.departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/web">http://www.departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/web</a><br /><a href="http://www.grupo.us.es/atlas">http://www.grupo.us.es/atlas</a><br /><br /><br /><br /> El 16/03/2016 14:57, <a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a>> escribi?:<br /> Send Bonetools mailing list submissions to<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /><br /> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br /> <a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br /> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-request@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /><br /> You can reach the person managing the list at<br /> <a href="mailto:bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-owner@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /><br /> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br /> than "Re: Contents of Bonetools digest..."<br /><br /><br /> Today's Topics:<br /><br /> 1. Re: material identification (Alice Choyke)<br /> 2. Any idea about this function of this artifact ?<br /> (Christopher Arabatzis)<br /><br /><br /> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br /> Message: 1<br /> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:06:26 +0100<br /> From: "Alice Choyke" <<a href="mailto:Choyke@ceu.edu">Choyke@ceu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Choyke@ceu.edu">Choyke@ceu.edu</a>>><br /> To: <a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] material identification<br /> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:56E94C42.66DE.00FB.0@ceu.edu">56E94C42.66DE.00FB.0@ceu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:56E94C42.66DE.00FB.0@ceu.edu">56E94C42.66DE.00FB.0@ceu.edu</a>>><br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br /> Sonia - you should use such questions to get your on-line identification manual kick started - there is a need. As for the exact material , I will leave that identification to the ivory specialists.<br /><br /> Alice<br /><br /><br /><br /> ALICE M. CHOYKE<br /> Associate Professor<br /> --------------------------------------------------------<br /> Central European University<br /> Medieval Studies Department<br /> Nador u. 9,<br /> 1051 Budapest, Hungary<br /> Office: + 36.1.327-3801 <a href="mailto:choyke@ceu.hu">choyke@ceu.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:choyke@ceu.hu">choyke@ceu.hu</a>> | <a href="http://www.ceu.hu">www.ceu.hu</a><<a href="http://www.ceu.hu">http://www.ceu.hu</a>> |<br /><a href="http://www.wbrg.net">www.wbrg.net</a><<a href="http://www.wbrg.net">http://www.wbrg.net</a>> | <a href="http://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/">www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/</a><<a href="http://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/">http://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/</a>> | <a href="http://www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu">www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu</a><<a href="http://www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu">http://www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu</a>><br /> See CEU story: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/ceuhungary">www.youtube.com/ceuhungary</a><<a href="http://www.youtube.com/ceuhungary">http://www.youtube.com/ceuhungary</a>><br /> Miriam Lucia?ez Trivi?o<<a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.es">mlucianez@us.es</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.es">mlucianez@us.es</a>>> 3/16/2016 12:03 PM >>><br /><br /> Dear all,<br /> Could someone help me to identify the osseous material of this piece? (Attached in the image).<br /> I will be very grateful if you could help me.<br /> Thank you very much,<br /> Miriam<br /> --<br /><br /> Miriam Lucia?ez Trivi?oContrato Predoctoral del Gobierno VascoDepartamento de Prehistoria y Arqueolog?aUniversidad de SevillaMar?a de Padilla s/n. 41004. Sevilla. SpainPhone: (34) 954 556906Fax: (34) 954 559920E-mail: <a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.eshttp:">mlucianez@us.eshttp:</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mlucianez@us.eshttp:">mlucianez@us.eshttp:</a>>//<a href="http://www.departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/webhttp://www.grupo.us.es/atlas">www.departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/webhttp://www.grupo.us.es/atlas</a><br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.html">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.html</a>><br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br /> Name: not available<br /> Type: image/jpg<br /> Size: 2215 bytes<br /> Desc: not available<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.jpg">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.jpg</a>><br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br /> Name: Alice Choyke.vcf<br /> Type: text/x-vcard<br /> Size: 328 bytes<br /> Desc: not available<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.vcf">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/adba553f/attachment-0001.vcf</a>><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> Message: 2<br /> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:57:27 +0200<br /> From: Christopher Arabatzis <<a href="mailto:christ.arabatzis@gmail.com">christ.arabatzis@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:christ.arabatzis@gmail.com">christ.arabatzis@gmail.com</a>>><br /> To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the<br /> study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."<br /> <<a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>>><br /> Subject: [Bonetools] Any idea about this function of this artifact ?<br /> Message-ID:<br /> <<a href="mailto:CAMaGw43bobD7=CbpRr8+eg7E3Jho6Ca=_wzPSLDcZE+i57=ZhQ@mail.gmail.com">CAMaGw43bobD7=CbpRr8+eg7E3Jho6Ca=_wzPSLDcZE+i57=ZhQ@mail.gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:CAMaGw43bobD7=CbpRr8+eg7E3Jho6Ca=_wzPSLDcZE+i57=ZhQ@mail.gmail.com">CAMaGw43bobD7=CbpRr8+eg7E3Jho6Ca=_wzPSLDcZE+i57=ZhQ@mail.gmail.com</a>>><br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br /> Dear all,<br /><br /> I hope you are fine.<br /><br /> I'm attaching a photo of an artifact from a neolithic settlement in Greece<br /> that dates back to the second half of the 5th millennium B.C.<br /><br /> Any ideas about its' use are very welcomed.<br /><br /> Best Regards,<br /> Chris<br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/f41c0f72/attachment.html">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/f41c0f72/attachment.html</a>><br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br /> Name: 832a.jpg<br /> Type: image/jpeg<br /> Size: 1014325 bytes<br /> Desc: not available<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/f41c0f72/attachment.jpg">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/f41c0f72/attachment.jpg</a>><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> Subject: Digest Footer<br /><br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Bonetools mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br /><a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br /><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> End of Bonetools Digest, Vol 120, Issue 21<br /> ******************************************<br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/272e85fd/attachment.html">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/272e85fd/attachment.html</a>><br /> -------------- next part --------------<br /> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br /> Name: walrus ivory detail.jpg<br /> Type: image/jpeg<br /> Size: 1302597 bytes<br /> Desc: walrus ivory detail.jpg<br /> URL: <<a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/272e85fd/attachment.jpg">https://listserv.niif.hu/pipermail/bonetools/attachments/20160316/272e85fd/attachment.jpg</a>><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> Subject: Digest Footer<br /><br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Bonetools mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br /><a href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br /><br /><br /> ------------------------------<br /><br /> End of Bonetools Digest, Vol 120, Issue 25<br /> ******************************************</div>
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