<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, linéale;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26158">Hi everyone,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26157"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26022">I agree with most of what's been said already: bone is best worked when it is not too fresh, and not too dry, and there are many possible treatments to make bones more workable. I did not personnally experimented a large array of techniques, but informations can be gleaned in the ethnographic, ethnoarchaeological, and experimental litterature.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26019"><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26610"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26608">Alice: i</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26608">t would be great indeed to post this discussion thread on the WGRG web page, as it may be of interest to many other specialists and students.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26823"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26938">Best,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26939"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26608"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26824"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26608">Christian<br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26020"> </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26021" class="signature"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429623001091_14059" dir="ltr"><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429623001091_14084">Christian Gates St-Pierre</b><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429623001091_14070" dir="ltr">Chercheur invité/Invited Researcher<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429623001091_14071" dir="ltr">Département d'anthropologie</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1429623001091_14072" dir="ltr">Université de Montréal</div>christian.gates-st-pierre@umontreal.ca</div><br> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26212" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, linéale; font-size: 13px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26211" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, linéale; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26210" dir="ltr"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26662" size="1"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26346" face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De :</span></b> Alice Choyke <Choyke@ceu.edu><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> dkconstantine@btinternet.com; bonetools@listserv.niif.hu <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> vendredi 14 août 2015 5h28<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re: [Bonetools] bones as raw material - fresh or stored?<br> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26217" class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv2141909903"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26216"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26876">Dear all - this is a rather interesting line of discussion that perhaps could profitably be added to webpage under the experimentation section managed by Eva David. What do you think Christian. I suspect these techniques were variable across time and space and the more we collect of ourown experiences with bone working the better!</div><br clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26215">Alice<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26214" style="clear:both;"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26213" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;FONT-FAMILY:'Open Sans Extrabold', 'sans-serif';" lang="EN-GB">ALICE M. CHOYKE</span></div><div class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia', 'serif';" lang="EN-GB">Associate Professor</span></i></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26220" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;FONT-FAMILY:'Open Sans Light', 'sans-serif';" lang="EN-GB">--------------------------------------------------------</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26219" style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times', 'serif';"><img id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26218" data-id="f11fb81d-7af5-0e0a-cca6-01d11b5b7250" src="cid:S9vB6U8DarwDxtPFDMzX" height="57" width="112"></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times', 'serif';"></span></div><div class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;"><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;COLOR:#009acd;" lang="EN-GB">Central European University</span></div><div class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;"><span style="" lang="EN-GB"></span><div class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;"><span style="" lang="EN-GB">Medieval Studies Department</span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26901" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;"><span style="" lang="EN-GB">Nador u. 9, </span></div><div class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-GB">1051 </span><span style="" lang="EN-GB">Budapest, Hungary</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times', 'serif';"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26932" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><b><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;" lang="EN-GB">Office</span></b><b style=""><span style="" lang="EN-GB">:</span></b><span style="" lang="EN-GB"> + 36.1.327-3801</span><b><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;FONT-FAMILY:'OpenSans-Bold', 'serif';" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26931" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:choyke@ceu.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:choyke@ceu.hu"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26930" style="" lang="EN-GB"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26929" color="#0000ff">choyke@ceu.hu</font></span></a><span style="" lang="EN-GB"> <span style="COLOR:#009acd;">|</span> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.ceu.hu/"><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><font color="#0000ff">www.ceu.hu</font></span></a><span style="" lang="EN-GB"> <span style="COLOR:#009acd;">|</span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26227" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26226" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26225" style="COLOR:#009acd;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.wbrg.net/">www.wbrg.net</a> <span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26224" style="COLOR:#009acd;">| <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26223" color="#009933"><a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26933" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/">www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/mad/</a> <span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26222" style="COLOR:#009acd;">| <a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26221" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu/">www.medievalstudies.ceu.hu</a></span></font></span></span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times', 'serif';"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26228" class="yiv2141909903MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:115%;"><b><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:uppercase;" lang="EN-GB">See CEU story</span></b><b style=""><span style="" lang="EN-GB">: </span></b><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><span style=""> </span></span><a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26936" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/ceuhungary"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26935" style="" lang="EN-GB"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439564222170_26934" color="#0000ff">www.youtube.com/ceuhungary</font></span></a><span style="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times', 'serif';"></span></div></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv2141909903yqt9740022551" id="yiv2141909903yqtfd47936"><br clear="none">>>> "Dave Constantine" <dkconstantine@btinternet.com> 08/04/15 2:30 PM >>><br clear="none">Hi Lena,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Bone can be worked dry but is less forgiving and has a tendency to fracture <br clear="none">more easily than when fresh or soaked.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Depending on the type of working, my personal preferences for softening are <br clear="none">soaking or boiling in water. Soaking is used for general working - when <br clear="none">making small objects such as needles and pins I keep the blanks in a pot of <br clear="none">water all the time so that they are always soaked when I come to work them. <br clear="none">Boiling is used when I am carving (particularly antler) as I find it <br clear="none">penetrates further and more rapidly than soaking alone and the effect can be <br clear="none">renewed quickly and easily, making it particularly suitable for the removal <br clear="none">of large amounts of material when carving a design. Generally I boil the <br clear="none">material for 10-15 minutes (depending on size) then have about the same in <br clear="none">working time before it dries out too much.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">When it is thoroughly soaked in water bone tends to "shave" rather than <br clear="none">"flake" when worked with a blade, which allows for quicker and neater <br clear="none">shaping of the basic form of the object. However, for any work involving <br clear="none">files and rasps I would recommend dry bone to prevent clogging. Boiling <br clear="none">gives a similar effect but it can be achieved more rapidly. Due to the <br clear="none">nature of bone though, boiling can cause hairline longitudinal cracks to <br clear="none">appear that are not always immediately noticeable, and so care must be taken <br clear="none">to keeping checking the state of the bone.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Fresh bone can be very easily worked, and for a roughing out stage it is a <br clear="none">good idea to do at least some basic preparation when the bone is fresh. If <br clear="none">working with longbones, I would normally remove the epiphyses and split the <br clear="none">bone lengthways while fresh. This also has the added advantage of removing <br clear="none">much of the material that would leak excess grease/fat into the workable <br clear="none">sections if the bone were processed whole. Anything involving shock to the <br clear="none">bone; e.g. using an axe, is best done when the bone is fresh as it is far <br clear="none">less likely to shatter than dry or even softened bone.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">There would probably be some difference in saw marks left on fresh bone <br clear="none">rather than dry/soaked bone, but I haven't tried it in earnest yet and <br clear="none">compared the two. I did a quick test a couple of years ago with an axe, <br clear="none">drawknife and rasp (dry bone) and axe and drawknife (fresh bone) and there <br clear="none">certainly seemed to be some difference in the marks. In particular, the last <br clear="none">point of contact between the waste shaving and the main bone was notable; <br clear="none">more of break on the dry bone and more of a cut on the fresh bone. I am sure <br clear="none">that once checked under a microscope it would be clearer.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sorry for the brief reply, but feel free to ask any specific questions and <br clear="none">if I can answer them I will.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Regards,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">David Constantine<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-----Original Message----- <br clear="none">From: Lena Strid<br clear="none">Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 11:42 AM<br clear="none">To: Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of<br clear="none">object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn.<br clear="none">Subject: [Bonetools] bones as raw material - fresh or stored?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Dear all,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Are there any information on whether bones used for bone working (Iron Age -<br clear="none">early Post-medieval) had to be relatively fresh, or could they be stored for<br clear="none">months (years?)? MacGregor mentions soaking antler to make it easy to cut,<br clear="none">but would this also work with dry bone?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have difficulty finding information on this, as most things I can find<br clear="none">concern modern bone working with dremels etc, which I assume would be less<br clear="none">sensitive to freshness/dryness of bone than using hand tools.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">With thanks,<br clear="none">Lena<br clear="none">Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open Document<br clear="none">Format). 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