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Le 18/04/2013 00:35, Sonja Vukovic a écrit :
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABOXu7k7YMAwU6LS=+5CBy48_7uYtLWkXP3jU=YsBs+ywNKPTQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thank you for the responses.. As Selena told you, it was
found within the secure context and there is no doubt in it.
As for the identification, I am not versed in it, but I am
sure that it was identified professionaly. I will ask Sofija
about the photos, but as it will be published soon, we can
forward you the paper..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But no one answered our original question: <b>Has</b><span><b> anyone
ever identified a mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman
period</b>?</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I shall come back to this matter in a couple of days. And I observe
too that nobody answered my remark/question :<b> there is a mighty,
excellent way to know. Who can tell?<br>
</b>
<br>
Sincerely.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABOXu7k7YMAwU6LS=+5CBy48_7uYtLWkXP3jU=YsBs+ywNKPTQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Thank you,</span></div>
<div><span>greetings from Belgrade,</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Sonja</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 7:36 PM, S O'Connor <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk">S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
That is the other Banerjee paper I was asking about. If
anyone has got them I would be really grateful for a
copy............<br>
<div><br>
Sonia<br>
<br>
Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting
Fellow, University of York<br>
Post-doctoral Research Fellow<br>
Archaeological Sciences<br>
Division of AGES,<br>
University of Bradford<br>
Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK<br>
<br>
tel <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:01274%2023%206498">01274 23 6498</a> (office)
5210 (lab)<br>
fax <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:01274%2023%205210">01274 23 5210</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>]
On Behalf Of <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trzaska@lineone.net">trzaska@lineone.net</a><br>
Sent: 17 April 2013 13:15<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in
Roman times?<br>
<br>
This would need to be checked but I think I am right in
believing that a merovingian object from Frankfurt Dom
was also thought to be mammoth ivory:<br>
<br>
Hampel, A. and Bannerjee, A., 1995<br>
Identifizierung und Differenzierung von Elfenbein am
Bespiel des merowingerzeitlichen Grabfundes aus dem
Frankfurter Dom, Archäologisches Korrespondenzblatt 25,
143-7<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>From a secure context as well I think, but is it
mammoth ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ian Riddler<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>----Original Message----<br>
<br>
>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:selenavitezovic@gmail.com">selenavitezovic@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
>Date: 17/04/2013 12:42<br>
<br>
>To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research
group for the study of<br>
<br>
> object and waste of bone,<br>
<br>
> antler. ivory and horn."<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br>
<br>
>Subj: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material
in Roman times?<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
>Hello, everyone,<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
>The item is from the secured context, it was
discovered during the<br>
<br>
>excavations conducted by Sofija Petković herself.<br>
<br>
>As to the photos, it must be checked with Sofija
first.<br>
<br>
>L'objet était trouvé pendant les fouilles qui était
menée par Sofija<br>
<br>
>Petković. Il faut verifié avec Sofija pour les
photos.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
>best regards, Selena<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
>On 17 April 2013 12:31, S O'Connor <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk">S.Oconnor@bradford.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
>> Dear Sonja,<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> As François says, it would be useful to know
the context for the object. Is<br>
<br>
>> it possible for us to see some photographs of
the fragment?<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Thanks,<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Sonia<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary
Visiting Fellow, University of<br>
<br>
>> York<br>
<br>
>> Post-doctoral Research Fellow<br>
<br>
>> Archaeological Sciences<br>
<br>
>> Division of AGES,<br>
<br>
>> University of Bradford<br>
<br>
>> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> tel <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:01274%2023%206498">01274 23 6498</a>
(office) 5210 (lab)<br>
<br>
>> fax <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:01274%2023%205210">01274 23 5210</a><br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
<br>
>> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a><br>
<br>
>> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu</a>]
On Behalf Of François Poplin<br>
<br>
>> Sent: 17 April 2013 09:11<br>
<br>
>> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br>
<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw
material in Roman times?<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Dear SA O'Connor<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> 1°) I am affraid, but the fact that has not
been answered my question "Has<br>
<br>
>> it been found in a genuine and secure
archaelogical excavation ?"<br>
<br>
>> sounds bad,<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> 2°) in that very case, there is a mighty,
excellent way to know. Who can<br>
<br>
>> tell ? (Olivier please, keep quite for some
days).<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Your's.<br>
<br>
>><br>
<br>
>> Le 16/04/2013 14:32, SA O'Connor a écrit :<br>
<br>
>> > Dear Sonja,<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> > I would be really interested in knowing
the basis of this<br>
<br>
>> > identification. If this is based on
Schreger angle measurements, it<br>
<br>
>> > may not be possible to differentiate
mammoth from extant elephant with<br>
<br>
>> > any confidence from a fragment.<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> > Only the outer Schreger angles are
diagnostic, i.e. those in the<br>
<br>
>> > outermost layers of the dentine, close to
the cementum covering of the<br>
<br>
>> > tusk. Towards the centre of a tusk the
angles become progressively<br>
<br>
>> > smaller and similar in character whether
the tusk is from an extant<br>
<br>
>> > and extinct proboscidean species. So, even
if the Schreger angles<br>
<br>
>> > average less than 100 or even 90 degrees,
unless traces of the<br>
<br>
>> > cementum are visible the fragment might
come from any position in the<br>
<br>
>> > tusk and could be elephant or mammoth.<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> > All the best,<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> > Sonia<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> > kQuoting Sonja Vukovic <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sonja.vukovic@gmail.com">sonja.vukovic@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> >> Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> I am forwarding you a query from our
colleague, Dr Sofija Petkovic<br>
<br>
>> >> from the Institute of Archaeology in
Belgrade. She is analysing an<br>
<br>
>> >> object made of the mammoth tusk, found
in Romuliana (Serbia), that<br>
<br>
>> >> dates back to the Roman period. The
object is fragmented and it<br>
<br>
>> >> represents an elephant's head done in
a relief. The function of this<br>
<br>
>> >> item is unclear, but it was probably
an application for some kind of<br>
<br>
>> >> furniture or sarcophagi, etc..<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> She is wondering weather anyone has
ever identified a mammoth tusk as<br>
<br>
>> >> raw material in Roman period?!<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> Anyway, she is going to publish this
object soon!<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> Thank you very much,<br>
<br>
>> >> best wishes,<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> Sonja<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> >> --<br>
<br>
>> >> Sonja Vukovic<br>
<br>
>> >> Laboratory for bioarchaeology<br>
<br>
>> >> Faculty of Philosophy<br>
<br>
>> >> University of Belgrade<br>
<br>
>> >> Serbia<br>
<br>
>> >><br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> >
----------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
>> > This message was sent using IMP, the
Internet Messaging Program.<br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> ><br>
<br>
>> >
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>> ><br>
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>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> François POPLIN<br>
>><br>
>> Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209
Archéozoologie, Archébotanique :<br>
>> sociétés,<br>
>> pratiques et environnements<br>
>><br>
>> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie<br>
>><br>
>> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle<br>
>> CP 56<br>
>> Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée<br>
>> 55, rue de Buffon<br>
>> 75005 Paris<br>
>> 01 40 79 33 11<br>
>> fax ------ 33 14<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://francoispoplin.blogspot.com">francoispoplin.blogspot.com</a><br>
>><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Sonja Vukovic</div>
<div>Laboratory for bioarchaeology</div>
<div>Faculty of Philosophy </div>
<div>University of Belgrade </div>
<div>Serbia</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
François POPLIN
Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
CP 56
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
55, rue de Buffon
75005 Paris
01 40 79 33 11
fax ------ 33 14
francoispoplin.blogspot.com
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