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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Dr Poplin and other members of the
list, <br>
<br>
I am writing to you in relation to the comment enclosed below
about "<span style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">an example of spacer made of
vulture ulna</span>" mentioned in pg 84 of a paper I signed with
Simon Davis. In any part of that paper we refer to the possibility
of that piece of bone been a spacer. I have several publications
on similar objects, all from the Iberian Peninsula and dated to
the Islamic period (10th-12th AD), you may be aware of (you can
download them from my academia.edu page) and in none of them that
possibility has ever been considered. Initially most of these
objects were catalogued by the archaeologists as flutes or wind
instruments. The morphology of the holes and their variation in
the different examples we have examined call for other function.
In fact we are more inclined to them being part of a cordophone
(string instrument). Also I would like to point out that the
illustration shown in the paper enclosed by Poplin belongs to a
fragment of the original object. <br>
Finally, I would like to add that so far we have not identified
any of these objects nor any of the Iberian aerophones
manufactured on avian ulnae as made from <span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><i>Gypaetus barbatus. </i></span>The
morphological and metrical data that support our identifications
are published in:<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";font-variant:small-caps;mso-bidi-font-weight:
bold" lang="PT">Moreno-García, M.; Pimenta, C.; Gros
Herrero, M.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="PT"> <st1:citation
w:st="on"><b>(2005)</b></st1:citation>. </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="EN-GB">Musical vultures in
the <st2:place w:st="on">Iberian Peninsula</st2:place>:
sounds through their wings. In <st1:citation w:st="on">(Grupe,
G. & Peters, J., eds.)</st1:citation><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Feathers, Grit
and Symbolism.
Birds and Humans in the Ancient Old and New Worlds. </i></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language:
EN-US;mso-bidi-font-style:italic" lang="EN-US">Proceedings
of the 5<sup>th </sup>Meeting of
the ICAZ Bird Working Group<i> </i>in</span><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-bidi-font-style:
italic" lang="EN-GB"> <st2:place w:st="on"><st2:city
w:st="on">Munich</st2:city></st2:place>
<st1:citation w:st="on">(26.7 – <st2:date ls="trans"
month="7" day="28" year="2004" w:st="on">28.7.2004</st2:date>)</st1:citation>.
</span><st1:citation w:st="on"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language: ES">(Documenta
Archaeobiologiae<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"> </i>3)</span></st1:citation><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language:ES;
mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">, pp. 329-347.</span><i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";mso-ansi-language:
ES"> </span></i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow";
mso-ansi-language:ES">R<span
style="mso-bidi-font-style:italic">ahden/Westf.,
Leidorf.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</o:smarttagtype><br>
Kind regards, <br>
Marta<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
El 27/03/2013 8:15, François Poplin escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51529CA3.6030303@mnhn.fr" type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">The next question is the
size of beads, mainly their diameter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">I have some trouble to work
and search as I would like these days ; among these
difficulties, both librairies of the Sorbonne and the Collège
de France are removing... 3 hours lost/wasted. I went to the
Institut du Monde arabe in order to find some spacers for you.
Maybe you can reach <i>Traditional Jewelry of India</i>,
Thames and Hudson ed., several editions. Two very fine
examples from Nagaland p. 66-67, one with 8 holes, another
with 8 and 11.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">What I want to stress is
that the width of spacers is very commonly the same as the
diameter of beads ; easy to understand : it would be
unsuitable to have them on the skin protruding as rails of
railway : it must be as in a level crossing (U. S. grade
crossing).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">Then, what is the usual
size/diameter of beads in the concerned/involved cultures, is
the question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">On p. 84 of the joint pdf,
kindly sent by Simon Davis, you have a an example of spacer
made of vulture ulna (why not bearded <i>Gypaetus barbatus</i>,
as very usual for pastoral flutes in recent Greece ?). You
could imagine that the beads themselves were made out of the
same kind on bone - the same diameter, I mean - but there is
not enough bones for that in the skeleton.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">The largest side of bone
wear the carving, the opposite was hidden, laying on the
skin/body or things like that ; there is a rather strong
tendancy in islamic/arabic tradition to/for
"osteoglyphy"/"osteography" (writing, carving of bones, I
don't enter the details).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">The piece is broken both on
a hole and one of the semi-annular groves (not very young
people may remember the medicinal ampoules of glass and the
little saw to open them...). You may imagine with few risks
that it went further at least for another hole (half + one).
There is an idea of symmetry, reasonnably moderated by the
lesser development/witdth at this end.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph;
mso-line-height-alt:12.0pt;mso-hyphenate:none"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Roman";letter-spacing:-.15pt">That's all what a can do
for today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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-------- Message original --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Sujet: </th>
<td>Re: tiré à part</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date : </th>
<td>Fri, 8 Mar 2013 08:07:34 +0000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">De : </th>
<td>Simon Davis <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:simonjmdavis@gmail.com"><simonjmdavis@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Pour : </th>
<td>François Poplin <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr"><poplin@mnhn.fr></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
peut-etre c'est ça?
<div>davis<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> François
POPLIN<br>
<br>
Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie,
Archébotanique : sociétés, pratiques et environnements<br>
<br>
Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie<br>
<br>
Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle<br>
CP 56<br>
Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée<br>
55, rue de Buffon<br>
75005 Paris<br>
01 40 79 33 11<br>
fax ------ 33 14<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://francoispoplin.blogspot.com" target="_blank">francoispoplin.blogspot.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<font color="#660000">Simon JM Davis, <br>
</font><font color="#663333">Zooarqueologia, Laboratório de
Arqueociências,<br>
IGESPAR,<br>
Rua da Bica do Marquês, 2 <br>
1300-087 Lisbon (Portugal) <br>
<br>
</font><font face="garamond,serif" size="1" color="#006600">There
was nothing, then dinosaurs, then<br>
There were mammals, and finally men,<br>
Who ruled for a while<br>
In belligerent style,<br>
And then there was nothing again <br>
(Gerard Benson)<br>
<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dra. Marta Moreno-García
G.I. Arqueobiología.
Instituto de Historia
Centro de Ciencias Humanas y Sociales (CCHS). CSIC
Albasanz 26-28. 28037 Madrid. Spain
Tel: +34 91 6022384
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marta.moreno@cchs.csic.es">marta.moreno@cchs.csic.es</a>
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