<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Bonjour Isabelle,</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Thanks for the references. I will look for them in our libraries first and I will get back to you if have any problems to get them.</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>Bonne journée!</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>Christian</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">De :</span></b> SIDERA Isabelle <isabelle.sidera@mae.u-paris10.fr><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> Christian Gates St-Pierre <cgates70@yahoo.fr>; "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <bonetools@listserv.niif.hu> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> lundi 26 mars 2012 6h51<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re: [Bonetools] Re : Bone tool debitage<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv663659319"><div><div>Cher Christian,</div><div><br></div><div>In the 80s, the criteria for identifying bone flaking techniques were discussed. This lead to defining a problematic around bone knapping. ETTOS, a french group of bone technology experimenters created by Danielle Stordeur, worked on the problem. They published a paper related to the efficiency of bone knapping and the degree of bone freshness (see below). This problematic was especially linked to Early Paleotlithic bone technology, see <span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(45, 45, 45); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px;">Biberson, Aguirre., </span> Vincent and Patou-Matis (see below). </div><div><br></div><div>In the 70s, in the perspective
of lithic technology, some scholars saw in bone flakes the sign of bone knapping work (see Roubet). </div><div><br></div><div>I do not see any recent work in the question. See may be Elise Tartar's work.</div><div><br></div><div>As Nerissa said : no hope or few for distinguising wether technological or food process.</div><div>Personnally when flakes are used as blanks and many long bone are broken, I tend to consider that there is a combination (telescopage) between technology and food process. Bones are broken with a certain savoir-faire for both aims. It is the case in Linear Pottery Culture (see Sidéra, 2000).</div><div><br></div><div>I can cite one example of obvious direct percussion only, which is made by an expert: see my paper in WNRG Talinn p. 88 fig. 9.</div><div><br></div><div>Some titles:</div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">Biberson P., Aguirre E.,
1965, Expériences de taille d'outils préhistoriques dans des os d'éléphant. <i>Quaternaria, 7, p. 165-183.</i></div></div><div><br></div><div>ETTOS, 1985, <span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(45, 45, 45); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px;">Techniques de percussion appliquées au matériau osseux, premières expériences.</span><span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(45, 45, 45); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px;"><i>Cahiers de l'Euphrate, 4, </i></span><span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(45, 45, 45); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px;">p. 373-381.</span></div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">Vincent A., 1987, "Préliminaires expérimentaux du façonnage de l'os par percussion directe (quelques reproductions d'artefacts reconnus dans les niveaux du Paléolithique Moyen)".<i>Outillage en os et en bois
de cervidés I,</i> Artefacts 1,éd. du Centre de recherche et de documentation archéologique de Viroinval,p. 23-32.</div></div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">
<div class="yiv663659319HngenderEinzug" style=""><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; line-height: 120%;" lang="FR">Roubet, C. 1979. <i>Economie
pastorale préagricole en Algérie orientale. Le néolithique de tradition
capsien. Exemple de l’Aurès</i>. CNRS, Paris.</span></div></div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);"><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">Sadek-Kooros H., 1972, Primitive bone Fracturing. A Method of research.<i>American Antiquity,</i>37 (3),p. 369-382.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);"><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">Sidéra I., 2000, Animaux domestiques, bêtes sauvages et objets en matières animales du Rubané au Michelsberg. De l'économie aux symboles, des techniques à la culture.<i>Gallia Préhistoire, </i><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" face="'Andale Mono'" size="2">42, p. 108-194.</font></div></div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font:
12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">I could make efforts to scan the papers if you do not find them.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font: 12px Arial; color: rgb(45, 45, 45);">Best, Isabelle </div></div><br><div><div>Le 23 mars 2012 à 22:38, Christian Gates St-Pierre a écrit :</div><br class="yiv663659319Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div><span>That's right Nerissa, that's why I wonder if there's been any recent research regarding that specific problem, anything beyond the "spiral fracture dabate" for example, or beyond the "human vs animal taphonomic transformations". It may be easy to identify waste productions such as blanks or nearly finished objects that broke during manufacture, but distinguishing a flake or
bone splinter resulting from food processing (you mention marrow and grease extraction) and a flake or bone splinter resulting from the first steps in the process of tool manufacture may not be that easy. So, would anyone know about any recent publication or research on that matter? Perhaps it's a bad idea to ask such a question on a Friday night... :-)<br></span></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span id="yiv663659319OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div>Christian Gates St-Pierre</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chercheur invité</div>
<div>Département d'anthropologie</div>
<div>Université de Montréal</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chercheur postdoctoral</div>
<div>Département d'histoire</div>
<div>Université Laval<br><br></div></span></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">De :</span></b> Nerissa Russell <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nr29@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:nr29@cornell.edu">nr29@cornell.edu</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> vendredi 23 mars 2012 15h18<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re:
[Bonetools] Bone tool debitage<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv663659319">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Really the bigger problem is distinguishing bone tool debitage from other anthropic fractures, such as marrow and bone grease processing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Nerissa Russell</div>
<div>Associate Professor and Chair</div>
<div>Department of Anthropology</div>
<div>Cornell University</div>
<div>Ithaca, NY 14853</div>
<div>USA</div>
<div>607-255-6790</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="yiv663659319OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; color: black; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<span style="font-weight: bold;">From: </span>Christian Gates St-Pierre <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:cgates70@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:cgates70@yahoo.fr">cgates70@yahoo.fr</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Reply-To: </span>Christian Gates St-Pierre <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:cgates70@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:cgates70@yahoo.fr">cgates70@yahoo.fr</a>>, "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn."
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Date: </span>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:55:57 +0000<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">To: </span>"Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject: </span>[Bonetools] Bone tool debitage<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>Hello,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would anyone know about any recent (post year 2000) publication on the differentiation between natural and anthropic fractures in order to identify the waste elements in the production of bone tools (flakes, debris, etc.), in English or French, and if
possible from prehistoric contexts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you in advance!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christian Gates St-Pierre</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chercheur invité</div>
<div>Département d'anthropologie</div>
<div>Université de Montréal</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chercheur postdoctoral</div>
<div>Département d'histoire</div>
<div>Université Laval</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ Bonetools mailing list <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">
Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">
https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a> </span>
</div>
</div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bonetools mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools</a><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Bonetools mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</a><br>https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools<br></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; font-size: 12px;"><div><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); white-space: normal;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100">Isabelle SIDERA (CNRS)</font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); white-space: normal;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100">UMR 7055 - MSH René-Ginouvès</font><span class="yiv663659319Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100"> </font></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); white-space: normal;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100">21 Allée de l'Université - 92 023
Nanterre cedex</font><span class="yiv663659319Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100"> </font></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); white-space: normal;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100"><span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100">tel. 1 46 69 24 48</font></span><span class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span class="yiv663659319Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"><font class="yiv663659319Apple-style-span" color="#941100"> </font></span></span></font></div></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br></div></div><br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>