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Dear Jackie,<BR>
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This is very interesting and ofcourse I would like a copy of your poster and article. I think there will be more people who would like a copy, so maybe it is an idea if you send it to the list (if it is not too large)?<BR>
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Best, Marloes<BR> <BR>
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 22:37:40 +0300<BR>From: jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com<BR>To: h13017cho@iif.hu<BR>CC: bonetools@listserv.niif.hu<BR>Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : Re : protohistoric object<BR><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hello,</FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Alice Choyke forwarded me this thread. At the last ICAZ meeting, I presented a poster on an experiment that investigated some astragali artifacts that I studied for my Master's thesis, thanks to Alice. I tried using astragali to work wet and dry clay and hide and compared the resulting macro and microwear to wear on flattened astragali artifacts from </FONT><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxapple-style-span><SPAN style="COLOR: black; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%">the Middle Bronze Age sites of Zagyvapálfalva-Homokbanya and Kisterenye-Hársas in Hungary. If my results would be of interest to anyone, please email me and I will send you a copy of the poster and my submitted article for the ICAZ volume. </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px">In my study, the lack of contextual information was very limiting, but I made several interesting conclusions about the potential of using unmodified astragali as tools. First, it is very easy to use goat astragali to hand-burnish pottery and they are very effective burnishers. Second, the outermost ridges of the medial and lateral bone sides were ground down to a flat surface after 120 minutes of use. Lastly, microwear developed that was very similar to that which was present on the bone artifacts: oblique striations and some micropitting developed. I held the astragali as was indicated by the handling polish on the artifacts and made clay that was comparable to the formula and particle size as clay from the site, thus I am confident in concluding that these flattened astragali were <B>potentially</B> used for burnishing leather-hard ceramic. Again, context limits this conclusion, but the wear was assessed with backscatter imaging and looks very similar.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px">Several key points may be relevant to this thread. One is that astragali do not have to be pre-flattened to burnish ceramic. Any sharp or raised areas are quickly removed by the gritty clay. Second, I used astragali to smooth the inside and outside of round pots and the astragali were flattened straight. This was not intentionally done, in fact I did not notice it until compared the profiles of these astragali with those used to experimentally work hide. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px">Again, I will send this article and poster to anyone who requests a copy. I look forward to reading about similar experiments with astragali and phalanges.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px">All the best,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px">Jackie Meier</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><SPAN class=ecxApple-style-span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14px"><A href="mailto:jacqueline.meier@uconn.edu">jacqueline.meier@uconn.edu</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Alice Choyke <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu">h13017cho@iif.hu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>If you wish I can also send you plentiful photos of phalanges from Szazhalombatta as well. there are many of these objects from the MBA. You should also contact Jacquie Meier (<A href="mailto:jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com)+who">jacqueline.s.meier@gmail.com) <FONT color=#000000>who</FONT></A> did some experiments with these objects.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV>Alice<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">Hello Selena, hello Alice<BR><BR>Marianne Christensen send to me your article, Alice, about Jászdózsa–Kápolnahalom and there is photo with worked phalanges. We'll begin experiments in August, with potter and smith, maybe they'll bring some indications... One of the problem of my object is the context is unclear, most of them was found in wells full of rubbish.<BR>Thanks for the abstract reference, Selena, I'll contact the author !<BR><BR>Best
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<DIV> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Marquebielle Benjamin</SPAN><BR>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<BR>5, rue du pont Guilheméry<BR>31000 Toulouse<BR>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<BR>e-mail : <A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr">benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A><BR>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">De :</SPAN></B> Alice Choyke <<A href="mailto:h13017cho@iif.hu">h13017cho@iif.hu</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">À :</SPAN></B> "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <<A href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Envoyé le :</SPAN></B> Ven 22 juillet 2011, 10h 17min 18s<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Objet :</SPAN></B> Re: [Bonetools] Re : Re : protohistoric object<BR></FONT>
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<DIV>Unless the clay surfaces being smoothed are straight such as the wall of an oven: I have been struggling with the exact same problem for astragalii and phalanges of all kinds, especially from the Middle Bronze Age of Hungary and am not much smarter than I began... Multiple hypotheses need to be tried out again and and again because sadly there will not be one right answer to this problem. It is definitely context driven.</DIV>
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<DIV>Alice <BR><BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">De :</SPAN></B> Selena Vitezovic <<A href="mailto:selenavitezovic@gmail.com">selenavitezovic@gmail.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">À :</SPAN></B> "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study of object and waste of bone, antler. ivory and horn." <<A href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Envoyé le :</SPAN></B> Sam 2 juillet 2011, 19h 10min 35s
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<DIV><BR>Hello everyone, <BR>Hello, Benjamin, <BR><BR>Perhaps a little bit out of time and place - but last year at ICAZ conference I saw a poster on astragals from Bronze age Hungary with similar usewear pattern, used probably for clay working. <BR>This is the link for the abstract, perhaps photos may be found or asked from author. <BR><A href="http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://alexandriaarchive.org/bonecommons/items/show/1383</A> <BR><BR>And I agree with Marloes, they must have been flattened before use. Some other used astragals, from Balkan Neolithic and Chalcolithic, seemed to have been flattened before use (probably with sandstone) - although they were most likely used on soft, organic materials, since they have intense polish. <BR><BR>best, selena <BR><BR></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:51 AM, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ivrel001@yahoo.fr" rel=nofollow>ivrel001@yahoo.fr</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Hello Marloes, sorry for the delay, I traveled.<BR>Good remark... Phalanges internal side are flat but not so flat. I agree with you : the (possible) worked surface must be straight and a pottery generaly isn't.<BR><BR>Best<BR>Benjamin
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<DIV> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Marquebielle Benjamin</SPAN><BR>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<BR>5, rue du pont Guilheméry<BR>31000 Toulouse<BR>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<BR>e-mail : <A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" rel=nofollow>benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A><BR>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">De :</SPAN></B> Marloes Rijkelijkhuizen <<A href="mailto:marloesrijkelijkhuizen@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow>marloesrijkelijkhuizen@hotmail.com</A>>
<DIV><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">À :</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" rel=nofollow>bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A><BR></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Envoyé le :</SPAN></B> Ven 1 juillet 2011, 21h 02min 49s
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<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Benjamin<BR> <BR>I couldn't see if it was flattened (before use). <BR> <BR>If used, it should be used for/on something with a flat surface, the surface is completely flat. (compare the medieval skates, these were used on ice and have a flat surface, but were sometimes flattened before use). If used for pottery the surface wouldn't be straight.<BR> <BR>Best, Marloes<BR><BR> <BR>
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:35:47 +0100<BR>From: <A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" rel=nofollow>benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A><BR>To: <A href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" rel=nofollow>bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A><BR>Subject: [Bonetools] Re : protohistoric object<BR><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">No, it isn't.<BR>I send photo of another object where you can see more precisely the traces. Use wear area is the result of the use/exploitation of the flatest face of the phalanx, maybe with a kind of abrasion technique... The mophologic modification of the bone could be various but never very important.<BR><BR>Non, il ne s'agit pas de sciage. <BR>Je joins une photo d'un autre objet sur laquelle on voit plus précisément les stigmates. La zone d'usure est le résultat de l'utilisation ou de l'exploitation de la face la plus plate de la phalange, peut être en utilisant une technique d'abrasion... Ce degré d'usure peut varier mais il n'est jamais très important.<BR>
<DIV> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Marquebielle Benjamin</SPAN><BR>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<BR>5, rue du pont Guilheméry<BR>31000 Toulouse<BR>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<BR>e-mail : <A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" rel=nofollow>benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A><BR>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">De :</SPAN></B> François Poplin <<A href="mailto:poplin@mnhn.fr" rel=nofollow>poplin@mnhn.fr</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">À :</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu" rel=nofollow>bonetools@listserv.niif.hu</A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Envoyé le :</SPAN></B> Ven 1 juillet 2011, 12h 20min 16s<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Objet :</SPAN></B> Re: [Bonetools] protohistoric object<BR></FONT><BR>Est-il sûr qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un sciage ?<BR><BR>Would not be sawing traces ?<BR><BR>Le 01/07/2011 11:00, MARQUEBIELLE Benjamin a écrit :
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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Hello !<BR>Does anybody have an idea about the type or function of this object ? It's an young <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">pig phalanx</SPAN>, with <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">use wear traces on the internal face</SPAN>, covered by oblique striations. It comes from large <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">protohistoric site</SPAN> (possible marketplace) of Toulouse, in the south of France (II-I° century BC). About 20 objects was found, a majority made of pig phalanxes (young or not) and only two made of bovid pahlanxes. Use wear is always located on the same face, with different use degree and some objetcs are <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">perforated on the proximal face</SPAN>. We thought about a kind of <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">smoother </SPAN>(in relation with potery ? metal ?) but objects are realy small and found in various contexts (more often in <SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">wells</SPAN> full of rubbish).<BR>Thanks a lot and best regards<BR>
<DIV> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Marquebielle Benjamin</SPAN><BR>PhD student TRACES laboratory - UMR 5608<BR>5, rue du pont Guilheméry<BR>31000 Toulouse<BR>tel : 06 71 33 61 52<BR>e-mail : <A href="mailto:benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr" rel=nofollow>benjamin.marquebielle@yahoo.fr</A><BR>
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