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<DIV>Hi Sonia, Alice & Maroles, and others,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am responding to you directly because of your help and
detailed responses. Many thanks fro your input.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, my focus is more narrow. My purpose is to determine only
the most prevalent materials made from bone that were
used in European military knife or sword hilts, not all
the possible materials that were used. The period of interest is from 1600
- 1900. I also am trying to establish, if possible, a means of
identifying the type of bone used without resorting to laboratory
analysis.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One of my contacts, an expert in the field of antique weapons,
told me <U>bovine horn</U> was a leading candidate. I never thought of it,
and frankly I haven't seen a hilt that I would recognize as cow or steer horn.
Have any of you seen a hilt made this way? Sonia mentioned antler
which is a very common material for hunting swords and knife hilts, but
not used much in the area of military weapons after the late 1700's.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In regard to whalebone, it was used for many sailor
made artifacts which is clearly identified as such, but none of the
numerous reference works devoted to edged weapons say it was used for them. It
may have been used for shipboard made knives and cutlasses, but to my
knowledge there is no records of this. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Elephant tusks, Sperm whale teeth, Walrus tusks, and Hippo teeth, are
sources of ivory hilts, but this is outside the scope of my research.
Another example is Mother of Pearl which is a common hilt material on
the M1820-M1842 US officers swords, but this also is not bone matter.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As Sonia pointed out identification of bone is difficult because the
end and underside of the hilt material are covered by the tang, pommel and guard
unless the bone edges shows due to damage to the metal work.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This picture is of a cavalry sword hilt made Ca 1805, likely by the English
Ketland firm. The hilt, in my opinion, is bone rather than ivory, as shown
by the dried flecks of blood grain in the marrow or pores. But what
kind of bone?</DIV>
<DIV align=center><IMG alt="" hspace=0
src="cid:004601c9bdb0$92b29280$6600a8c0@toshibauser" align=baseline
border=0></DIV>
<DIV>I plan to contact Mathew Collins as Sonia suggested and pose these
questions to him.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Many thanks for your help and your further input. All the best,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joel Jacobs</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=S.Oconnor@Bradford.ac.uk href="mailto:S.Oconnor@Bradford.ac.uk">S
O'Connor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=bonetools@listserv.niif.hu
href="mailto:bonetools@listserv.niif.hu">'Mailing list for archaeologists of
the research group for thestudy ofobject and waste of bone,antler. ivory and
horn.'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:46
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bonetools] BONE USE IN
GRIPS OF WEAPONS</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear Joel, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I've been out of email contact so have only just found
this email string. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I've not dealt with much material of this period but I
have several late 19<SUP>th</SUP>/early 20<SUP>th</SUP> table knives in my
teaching collection, the handles of which are solid strips of compact bone
drilled to take a tang and are probably cattle bone. Small scale tang knives
or pocket knives could have handles of strips from smaller bones so pig and
deer might not be entirely ruled out but would not, I agree, be suitable for a
serious weapon. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Earlier examples of weapon handles that do spring to
mind are all from tubes of bone of a size that had to be cut from the shaft of
at least a cattle or horse longbone, or from solid slabs of whale bone. Antler
is also used. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Looking at the worked surface of the handle does not
often provide enough information to allow species ID but the large scale of
the vascular features of whale bone can distinguish it from horse or
cattle. In all cases it helps to be able to see the cross-section of the
handle to:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT
face=Symbol size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">·<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><SPAN dir=ltr>gauge the thickness
of the bone and the contours of any natural internal cavity (species and
skeletal element ID)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT
face=Symbol size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">·<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><SPAN dir=ltr>look at the extent
and distribution of secondary osteones (which are particularly prolific in
whale bone)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><FONT
face=Symbol size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">·<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><![endif]><SPAN dir=ltr>examine the
organisation of the compact bone tissue and the presence and characteristics
of any spongy bone (differentiating post cranial bone from antler and, if it
is antler, then possibly the identification of the species of
deer).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sadly, unless the handle is damaged (the end section
of the handle is often obscured by fittings or corrosion) species ID is
generally difficult to pursue beyond saying, for instance, that the handle is
made from sections of a longbone from a large
mammal.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Some handles of the period you are interested in may
also be made from bones of non-cetacean marine mammals, such as the ribs of
Stellar’s sea cow (now extinct) or sections of walrus os penis (baculum). The
walrus os penis can be as long as a man’s arm and several centimetres in
diameter. I think Marloes had bone handled knives of probable walrus os penis
from post medieval deposits in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Amsterdam</st1:place></st1:City>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Finally, where morphological or histological evidence
is inconclusive, it may be possible to get species ID from analysis of
surviving non-structural proteins in the bone. Prof Matthew Collins,
Archaeological Sciences, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">York</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>, heads a team specialising in
ancient biomolecule analysis and they have had some success in this
area.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hope this all helps.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sonia<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dr Sonia O'Connor FSA FIIC
ACR<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Research Fellow in
Conservation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Archaeological Sciences, Division of
AGES<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on"><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">University</SPAN></FONT></st1:PlaceType> of
<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Bradford</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bradford, <st1:place w:st="on">West
Yorkshire</st1:place> BD7 1DP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tel 01274 236498 (office), Tel 01274 235210 (lab.),
Fax 01274 235190 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">X-Radiography of Textiles, Dress and Related Materials
by Sonia O'Connor and Mary BrooksCheck it out at
http://books.elsevier.com/uk//Elsevier/uk/subindex.asp?maintarget=&isbn=0750666323<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu [mailto:bonetools-bounces@listserv.niif.hu]
On Behalf Of h13017cho@helka.iif.hu<BR>Sent: 12 April 2009 20:08<BR>To:
Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study ofobject
and waste of bone,antler. ivory and horn.<BR>Subject: Re: [Bonetools] BONE USE
IN GRIPS OF WEAPONS</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear Joel,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Antler would also make
excellent grips for daggers at least - at least that was the case
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">here in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Hungary</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Sonia O'Connor must have
data on this question. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Alice Choyke<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bonetools mailing list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bonetools@listserv.niif.hu<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">https://listserv.niif.hu/mailman/listinfo/bonetools<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
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