[Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?

SA O'Connor S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk
Thu Apr 18 10:56:58 CEST 2013 

Dear Sonja,

I have not yet seen any in the UK from Roman or Anglo-Saxon contexts.   
It has been speculated that the source of ivory for Anglo-Saxon bag  
rings might have included mammoth ivory but all the examples I have  
examined so far are clearly elephant ivory.  This is why any  
identification of mammoth ivory from a Roman site has to be 'beyond  
doubt'. It would be wise to gain at least a second opinion and to  
publish the evidence for the identification in full.

All the best,

Sonia

Dr Sonia O'Connor,
Post-doctoral Research Fellow,
University of Bradford,
Bradford,
West Yorkshire.
BD7 1DP

  Quoting Sonja Vukovic <sonja.vukovic at gmail.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> thank you for the responses.. As Selena told you, it was found within the
> secure context and there is no doubt in it. As for the identification, I am
> not versed in it, but I am sure that it was identified professionaly. I
> will ask Sofija about the photos, but as it will be published soon, we can
> forward you the paper..
>
> But no one answered our original question: *Has** anyone ever identified a
> mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman period*?
>
> Thank you,
> greetings from Belgrade,
>
> Sonja
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 7:36 PM, S O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk>wrote:
>
>> That is the other Banerjee paper I was asking about.  If anyone has got
>> them I would be really grateful for a copy............
>>
>> Sonia
>>
>> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University of
>> York
>> Post-doctoral Research Fellow
>> Archaeological Sciences
>> Division of AGES,
>> University of Bradford
>> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>>
>> tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
>> fax 01274 23 5210
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu [mailto:
>> bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of trzaska at lineone.net
>> Sent: 17 April 2013 13:15
>> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>>
>> This would need to be checked but I think I am right in believing that a
>> merovingian object from Frankfurt Dom was also thought to be mammoth ivory:
>>
>> Hampel, A. and Bannerjee, A., 1995
>> Identifizierung und Differenzierung von Elfenbein am Bespiel des
>> merowingerzeitlichen Grabfundes aus dem Frankfurter Dom, Archäologisches
>> Korrespondenzblatt 25, 143-7
>>
>>
>>
>> From a secure context as well I think, but is it mammoth ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian Riddler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >----Original Message----
>>
>> >From: selenavitezovic at gmail.com
>>
>> >Date: 17/04/2013 12:42
>>
>> >To: "Mailing list for archaeologists of the research group for the study
>> of
>>
>> >       object and waste of bone,
>>
>> >       antler. ivory and horn."<bonetools at listserv.niif.hu>
>>
>> >Subj: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Hello, everyone,
>>
>> >
>>
>> >The item is from the secured context, it was discovered during the
>>
>> >excavations conducted by Sofija Petković herself.
>>
>> >As to the photos, it must be checked with Sofija first.
>>
>> >L'objet était trouvé pendant les fouilles qui était menée par Sofija
>>
>> >Petković. Il faut verifié avec Sofija pour les photos.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >best regards, Selena
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >On 17 April 2013 12:31, S O'Connor <S.Oconnor at bradford.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Dear Sonja,
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> As François says, it would be useful to know the context for the
>> object. Is
>>
>> >> it possible for us to see some photographs of the fragment?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Thanks,
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Sonia
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Dr Sonia O'Connor PhD FSA FIIC ACR Honorary Visiting Fellow, University
>> of
>>
>> >> York
>>
>> >> Post-doctoral Research Fellow
>>
>> >> Archaeological Sciences
>>
>> >> Division of AGES,
>>
>> >> University of Bradford
>>
>> >> Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD7 1DP, UK
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> tel 01274 23 6498 (office) 5210 (lab)
>>
>> >> fax 01274 23 5210
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> >> From: bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu
>>
>> >> [mailto:bonetools-bounces at listserv.niif.hu] On Behalf Of François
>> Poplin
>>
>> >> Sent: 17 April 2013 09:11
>>
>> >> To: bonetools at listserv.niif.hu
>>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Bonetools] Mammoth tusk as raw material in Roman times?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Dear SA O'Connor
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> 1°) I am affraid, but the fact that has not been answered my question
>> "Has
>>
>> >> it been found in a genuine and secure archaelogical excavation ?"
>>
>> >> sounds bad,
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> 2°) in that very case, there is a mighty, excellent way to know. Who can
>>
>> >> tell ? (Olivier please, keep quite for some days).
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Your's.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Le 16/04/2013 14:32, SA O'Connor a écrit :
>>
>> >> > Dear Sonja,
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > I would be really interested in knowing the basis of this
>>
>> >> > identification. If this is based on Schreger angle measurements, it
>>
>> >> > may not be possible to differentiate mammoth from extant elephant with
>>
>> >> > any confidence from a fragment.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > Only the outer Schreger angles are diagnostic, i.e. those in the
>>
>> >> > outermost layers of the dentine, close to the cementum covering of the
>>
>> >> > tusk. Towards the centre of a tusk the angles become progressively
>>
>> >> > smaller and similar in character whether the tusk is from an extant
>>
>> >> > and extinct proboscidean species. So, even if the Schreger angles
>>
>> >> > average less than 100 or even 90 degrees, unless traces of the
>>
>> >> > cementum are visible the fragment might come from any position in the
>>
>> >> > tusk and could be elephant or mammoth.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > All the best,
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > Sonia
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > kQuoting Sonja Vukovic <sonja.vukovic at gmail.com>:
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> I am forwarding you a query from our colleague, Dr Sofija Petkovic
>>
>> >> >> from the Institute of Archaeology in Belgrade. She is analysing an
>>
>> >> >> object made of the mammoth tusk, found in Romuliana (Serbia), that
>>
>> >> >> dates back to the Roman period. The object is fragmented and it
>>
>> >> >> represents an elephant's head done in a relief. The function of this
>>
>> >> >> item is unclear, but it was probably an application for some kind of
>>
>> >> >> furniture or sarcophagi, etc..
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> She is wondering weather anyone has ever identified a mammoth tusk as
>>
>> >> >> raw material in Roman period?!
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> Anyway, she is going to publish this object soon!
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> Thank you very much,
>>
>> >> >> best wishes,
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> Sonja
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> --
>>
>> >> >> Sonja Vukovic
>>
>> >> >> Laboratory for bioarchaeology
>>
>> >> >> Faculty of Philosophy
>>
>> >> >> University of Belgrade
>>
>> >> >> Serbia
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>
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>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> François POPLIN
>> >>
>> >> Directeur honoraire de l’UMR 7209 Archéozoologie, Archébotanique :
>> >> sociétés,
>> >> pratiques et environnements
>> >>
>> >> Responsable du Séminaire d'Anthropozoologie
>> >>
>> >> Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle
>> >> CP 56
>> >> Ancien Laboratoire d’Anatomie comparée
>> >> 55, rue de Buffon
>> >> 75005 Paris
>> >> 01 40 79 33 11
>> >> fax ------ 33 14
>> >>
>> >> francoispoplin.blogspot.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>
>
>
> --
> Sonja Vukovic
> Laboratory for bioarchaeology
> Faculty of Philosophy
> University of Belgrade
> Serbia
>



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